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Reader Comments (66)

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:06PM claytondora said

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Aww, sounds like someone didn't enjoy Darkfall. Want a cookie?

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:19PM (Unverified) said

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It's good these games exist. They serve as a place for those kinds of people to inhabit while those of us who enjoy moderation and structure can avoid the sociopaths by not playing those games.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:20PM Nadril said

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The best way to handle it is to have penalties for someone outright killing the other player. In all honesty the "red" method from Lineage II is the best way to do it.

- If you attack a player you turn purple. This gives you a slightly higher chance to drop an item when you die, but the flag will wear off after 30 seconds or so of not fighting.

- If a white player attacks a purple player they will turn purple.

-If a purple player kills a purple player than they simply unflag shortly after.

-If a white player kills a white player they turn red. They have to work off their karma (kill mobs to lower the number) until they get un red. While a player is red they can be attacked by anyone without consequence and they can drop gear more freely. (I.E they pretty much will drop a bunch of stuff). They also can not enter towns without guards killing them.



This kind of method can be easily adapted to a PvP MMO like darkfall. Of course right now the problem is darkfall uses a retarded way of flagging players (not to mention it looks boring as fuck) so it's going to be filled with nothing but griefers.

In Lineage II there are a lot of people who grief, sure. However if they do so they turn red, which not only makes the game more of a challenge for them but means that the lowbie can call some friends or something to go get the guy.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:25PM (Unverified) said

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I've always prefered a little structure to my pvp in the simplest form. Some people like objectives or being rewarded for participating. I just like equal, small, fights. Rather that be 1v1 to 5v5 it's just what I like. It doesn't make anyone more carebear than the other. People just prefer different styles.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:31PM (Unverified) said

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There will always be free pvp style games because there's an anarchist view of life (in terms of fairness) within all of us.

Cheers

Plus, people who love action entertainment like to imagine themselves tearing through opponents like a hot knife through butter, free pvp/fps is the only way to supply that experience, unless you want to go to war...

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:27PM Nadril said

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No where in the article is he crying about PvP. Instead he is only starting up a conversation on if these "hardcore" types really want a hardcore experience, or if they just want an experience in which they can be on the top.

At least, that is what I got from it. I'm sure that the players these guys are talking about wanting to get away from would be you though. No need to whine because someone is trying to start up a discussion on how your favorite way of playing might not be all it is cracked up to be.


I'll repeat again though, Darkfall looks horrible.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:44PM (Unverified) said

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Kyle,

You are missing the point.

You said:
"If these PvP-centric games aren't for "carebears", then who are they for? Griefers? Well when you design a game that only they want to play, then yes."

You talk like the code in WoW broke, and suddenly everyone can kill each through some "exploit".
But - obviously - Darkfall is all about PvP.. that IS THE GAME. So you can't talk about "griefers" who "ruin the game" in DF any more than you can whine about being killed in counter-strike. Of course you CAN, but its retarded (although people still do it).

You worry about "bullies" abusing the "lone stragglers just trying to play the damn game". But you already acknowledged that "THE GAME" is all about PvP. So if you are a "lone straggler" who gets ganked, maybe you just aren't very good at "the game"..

You said:
"I'd rather have a game that takes at least some skill, because from what I can tell these free-for-all gank-fests are more about who's got the biggest posse. "
But beta leaks have reported coordinated groups of 4 players killing an unskilled group of 10. I think when you say "skill" you really mean "safety". And if you're talking about WoW, there is no skill, there is only hours invested. Darkfall will be a vast improvement over that in the skill department.

It has been said that Darkfall is basically a hybrid of Quake and UO. Sure, that is not for everyone.
But don't cry about it.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:58PM Holgranth said

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See your the kind of person that is going to kick everyone else out and make sure the Darkfall community is limited to a bunch of ass holes with the opinion "Beating up newbs is part of the game, if you don't like it your a carebear."

On to the real points:

Darkfall (although it pretends otherwise) has levels for each skill they go up to 100, if you have a higher level in more forms of combat you WILL have a massive advantage same as WoW, cry about it.

Killing somone who is weaker than you (Especialy by using the retarded alignment system) is griefing.

Basically all his points are accurate you can't play solo unless you want to be ganked (At least untill there are lots of empty servers) by roving gangs of douchbags .
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Posted: Feb 22nd 2009 6:20AM (Unverified) said

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"You worry about "bullies" abusing the "lone stragglers just trying to play the damn game". But you already acknowledged that "THE GAME" is all about PvP. So if you are a "lone straggler" who gets ganked, maybe you just aren't very good at "the game".."

Leaving aside any value judgements as to whether that's a good game design or not, you have to realise that it's a game design which basically guarantees that you will never get any new players into the game once a certain amount of time has passed post-release and the first wave of players are powerful and well-established.
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Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:46PM Holgranth said

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*Braces for hate*

Ya this is going to go DOWN really good.

The thing he is trying to say is that the people who say they want anarchy dream of riding the storm, ganking everyone in sight, being THE DUDE.

The problem is everyone has that dream and only a very small number of no lifers get to live it out.

Darkfall is going to (Has already really) bring out the dumbshits that like to gank newbies. The system for want of a better discription ENCOURAGES douchebaggery.

I'm sure Adventurine realised from the extreme about of beta that they did that the alignment system is skewed.

They appear to have done @#$& all about it.

Instead they are relying on players for content and forgetting the first rule of the internet EVERYONE acts like a dick because they can get away from it.

I have read several posters who think they are going to just hire somone as a body guard or join a strong clan then they will be safe.

I gots news for ya Darkfall is shooting for full EXTREME ANARCHY.

And only a very very small number of people will want that.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:52PM (Unverified) said

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well this writer seems to be gettin alot of burns huh..
and maybe some are deserved ..
but it seems he is talking about hardcore pvp games like darkfall.. and how harsh it is. where as the main point of the game is for grouping and having fun with your guild against other guilds. They just giving you the freedom to do what you want.

So dont cry about the rules of the playground...
cause u may fall and get hurt...
im sure if you play with your friends you can have fun. Even if you

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 4:52PM Jesspiper said

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Free-for all PvP has its purpose: it allows for the dregs of the gaming society to more or less feed off eachother in the same place without plaguing normal MMORPG's and the structured, faction-based PvP that they often provide. You know, the ones that involve fighting multiple enemies of your own level on a level field, as opposed to "hardcore" PvP where you kill players weaker than you over an over.

FFA is for the online bullies, social rejects, inferiority complexes and griefers that probably couldn't win a real life fight if their lives depended on it. I'll never forget my friend (who is a rl martial-arts and military close combat veteran) was once called a carebear by some online reject because he didn't like FFA PvP. Irony.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 5:08PM Nadril said

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That's not really fair man. Not everyone who enjoys FFA PvP is like Crymorenoob. I really find it offensive that you would think anyone who enjoys this is a social reject and a bully.


So really, not all of us are like Crymorenoob here. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump us all into one demographic. Believe it or not some people do ENJOY a game where PvP is the main focus. We realize that we may get ganked and we live with that.


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Posted: Feb 21st 2009 6:37PM Jesspiper said

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Not everyone, Nadril, I'll give you that, but it's not like the Crymorenoobs out there are the minority in FFA PvP games. I know this because eventhough I hate said games and the communities they bring, I still give them a try for the sake of loving PvP and everytime I try them my opinion about the majority of the people who flock to FFA PvP only gets reinforced and substantiated more and more.
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Posted: Feb 21st 2009 6:44PM Nadril said

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Sadly, yeah, I know. The worst thing is those with such an attitude usually are the ones who resort to using the cheap tactics such as tricking your opponent to flag (at least in Darkfall) or anything like that.

However it is fun to give those kind of guy's a beating, I'll tell you what.
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Posted: Feb 22nd 2009 5:23PM Firebreak said

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I do think the the crymorenoob is a minority group in FFA servers. The are a VERY vocal minority though as they tend to be the ones you run into right off the bat. I find that the social aspect in FFA servers are greater then other servers as you really have to deal with everyone in that server on a personal level. I also find it heavily promotes grouping and team work on a larger level. Hell I remember playing on mordred and having a group of PVPers protecting the newbie areas from the crymore types.
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Posted: Feb 21st 2009 5:01PM Dudgeon said

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The few FFA PvP games I played disappointed me only in that it seemed like PvP happened less and always felt awkward. I guess the only real FFA games I have played were AoC and EVE. In AoC people never knew when to attack someone and when to wave "hi". I think the most fun world PvPing I have had were in games like WoW and WAR where their is are opposite times or sides that always KOS.

I love the idea of FFA though and it is not because I am a giant fan of PVE most of the time. The NPCs and other challenges are just far too easy or predictable. You can always out-think any AI if you have played with it enough. You can never know exactly what a real person is going to do. Therefore in a game where the "mobs" are not all AIs, and are controlled by real thinking people, it becomes a much more unpredictable and gripping game. This is what keeps me coming back to EVE even though the gameplay can be a little too slow for me at times. At least my heart races occasionally. I have never gotten that feeling raiding or turning in a kill X quest.

It has nothing to do with giving grief. People that like to PvP don't feel emotionally distraught when their little character dies. Frustrated maybe, but not victimized. Only when the game mechanics have been exploited to ensure certain results has the player been made a victim.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 5:04PM (Unverified) said

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The real dumbshits of the MMO world are the retards who play WoW. Point-click-watch the fight vs. a mob with zero intelligence. Ya, that takes skill.

Social rejects will hate DF because they will always be the "lone straggler."

WoW is a place for douchebags with no real-life friends to fight against the computer and pretend they are being social because they do lots of "emotes" and say "lol" and "omg" all the time.. But in reality you are still fat and lonely.

Posted: Feb 21st 2009 5:06PM (Unverified) said

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You seem really mad about something.
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Posted: Feb 21st 2009 5:18PM Nadril said

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Oh no :P

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