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Reader Comments (73)

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 10:25AM (Unverified) said

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And once more we see developers expecting PvP to replace almost all need of content.

Who needs to spend time and money on PvE content if we have a good PvP system?

Let us hope after enough of these kinds of games fail developers will work out that you NEED PvE even if your game focus is PvP.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 10:40AM hami83 said

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Who says it'll fail? Oh, yeah people that jump the gun.

This game seems to accomplish exactly what it was trying to accomplish. Going back to the old days that a few people really really miss.
It's incredibly niche.

I imagine lots of players will play it, but not in WoW or WARs numbers.
I for one won't, because I'm more of a PvE guy, though the exploration interests me (WoWs tiny. :P)

But I am not a fan of PvP myself, but some are.
I won't call this game fail right away because, well, I'm not an idiot.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:35AM nomoredroids said

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"the monster AI is pretty awesome, and the exploration factor is phenominal"
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 12:15PM (Unverified) said

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Who says it will fail? I do.

I might be wrong, but only time will tell.
So far most of what I am hearing about the game tells me that it is very weak. And while it may hold onto 50,000 or so players. To me that is a failed game. Feel free to call that a successful game.

I'm sure the game backers will be thrilled to have such a low return on their investment.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 4:36PM Temploiter said

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The game backers are the game makers themselves. It's an Indy studio, self-funded. I'm sure 50,000 x $15 would be pretty good for a small outfit. Nobody is claiming this is a WoW-killer or anything. And it WILL NOT be, for sure, it's a niche game, but it may be a financially successful one.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 5:29PM (Unverified) said

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Lets assume this is a VERY small team and somehow they built this with only 20 people. And that they all made just $50,000 a year for 7 years. That is $7,000,000
Assume that after support costs they get to keep $5 per user per month. Then we see that to make $7,000,000 at 50,000 users will take only 28 Months to break even.

And of course that leaves them with nothing for developing expansions.

And of course we have left out most of the costs, personal costs are only one part of the picture, licenses alone have to have run them a couple of million. Then we have rent, utilitys, travel, advertising and god knows how many other costs.

I would be surprised if they built this for less then 20 million. And 20 million will take almost 7 years to break even... With no expansions.

Nobody makes a game like this for 50,000 users. Even a nitch game needs hundreds of thousands of players to be a success. 50,000 is a huge loss.

Not that it matters to me, not like its my money :)
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 10:52AM Kyoji said

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I was looking to give this game a shot, but the recent reports that all loot is FFA and the 'rogue player' trick you mentioned really discourage me from giving this a try. On the flip side I'm aware this game wasn't made for everyone, so I hope the griefers for which it was created enjoy it immensely.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:11AM Teki said

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sounds a bit like UO before they added trammel. That was some of the best times I had in a mmo, sure there were rough spots here and there. It all worked out though.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:16AM Snow Leopard said

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Why are people so psyched about this game? Its visuals are uglier than Sarah Jessica Parker on a bad day and its “pvp is everything” philosophy is a sentiment that has proven altogether a failure for mmo developers over the last two years!
I can’t say I’m surprised that the Collin found a game that was less than stellar. People can knock on WoW all the want but Blizz has actually evolved to meet the realization that mmo gamers want a flexible and diverse experience rather than one that is filled with punishing difficulties and repetitive grinding. In addition, they’ve created and cultured a setting that is approachable and appealing rather than grim and niche (see WAR).
It’s because of all these attributes that I see games like Free Realms and The Old Republic; vibrant titles with engaging settings, making the splash in 2009 and not the same rehashed hardcore conventions of games like Darkfall.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:42AM nomoredroids said

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I'm not really sure how you could call a skill-based, level-less, class-less, ffa-loot, no-targeting, no auto-attacking, with actual enemy AI "rehashed." OMG there's been like 3 games like that in the past; its just a clone!

Meanwhile...

http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/mmolist.html

Nearly ALL of these games contain classes, levels, auto-attacking, grinding, and poor PvP without any consequence. But no, you're right. Darkfall is just rehashed.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 1:16PM Snow Leopard said

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Its rehashed not so much on a mechanical level, but conceptually and philosphically; the aim to create an mmo based solely on pvp, grinding and mundane quests, and punishing difficulty combined with a drab and grim setting. Thesse are attributes we've seen repeated in far too many failed mmos over the yars and no of the failed steps forward mentioned in the article above can make up for the fact that an mmo with these traits is simply not going to be fun or succesful.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:19AM Sephirah said

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As it seems to be the griefer paradise, I think it could improve others MMORPG communities should the "lololol I pwn u nub!!11eleven" kids move to Darkfall...

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 12:20PM (Unverified) said

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The problem being griefers hate playing with other griefers. So when a game fills up with nothing but griefers they all quit and go looking for a new game.

But on the plus side, it should draw off a lot of the kids for a couple of months.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:21AM tk421242 said

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If the game is designed with PVP combat being a major aspect of the experience and looting other players a component of that, how is looting players griefing? If we are talking wow or warhammer where every single player of the same class has pretty much the same abilities only modified by gear from raiding and someone exploits the system to take gear I can understand that.

If I play on a pvp server or a game that is mostly PVP I want to be able to actually fight other people and take their stuff. The rogue 'trick' may not be nice, but hardly on the level of someone on a PVE server hiding in the shadows or re-running the same instance over and over again to take gear.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:27AM Seraphina Brennan said

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Good question Bio,

I'm calling it griefing because it's severely annoying and unstoppable. There's no way you can really go around it because it won't flag the offending party for revenge or anything like that.

Alignment is important, because it dictates when you can no longer enter cities due to killing too many people. If you can skip around that entire system by doing something as simple as standing in the way of someone who's trying to progress or defend their lives, then the system has now become a moot point. What could be a really cool form of gameplay (i.e., becoming a murderer and living as an outcast from cities) has been removed by a simple act.

I'm all for being stabbed in the back and having my stuff taken. If you can do that to me, props to you. What I'm not thrilled with is watching someone dance around me as I try to kill a goblin, annoyingly trying to get in the way of my sword swings. If you want to kill me, then kill me.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 2:07PM (Unverified) said

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Even if there were no "rogue" exploit, the alignment system would still be a bust. Living "outside society" is not exactly difficult enough to be considered a penalty or a punishment.

In the end it will be so much like pre-Trammel UO on a social level that no one will care about the minor advances in gameplay or graphics.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:41PM (Unverified) said

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The griefing part comes in when someone runs into your attack path and gets killed. Who's to blame? You or the dolt who was so stupid to run into your sword? Yet the game think it's you and punishes you by flagging you a criminal. The looting is just a consequence of the griefing.

UO avoided this as you explicitly had to select your target for attacks.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 11:24AM (Unverified) said

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greatest game ever created!!!!!!


cannot wait.

no wussie AoC, LOTRO Or warhammer.

You die, you lose everything, like old school UO!

You really hit it on the head. Why need monsters? The real battles will be between groups of player killers. As a new player, you should learn who the biggest groups are and allign yourself with one of them, and then you'll have free roam in their areas.

Posted: Feb 19th 2009 2:39PM veyper said

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That has about as much depth as Pinball. A very select few will find joy in repeatedly killing the same 2 people that actually play the game over and over.
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Posted: Feb 19th 2009 1:08PM Samael said

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Just some of us like to HAVE FUN in a game, and not treat the game as a second JOB. I knew from the start this will be griefers paradise, hope they move there. This is for people who love punishing themselves and then proclaim "OH I AM SO MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU ALL, YOU WUSSIES I AM HARDCORE"

I rather be a wuss and have fun at what I am doing, that have a game that was meant to provide me with entertainment instead punishes me. I think I will stick to my LoTRO. Go ahead call me a wuss.
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