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Reader Comments (13)

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 12:33PM J Brad Hicks said

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First, a confession: I didn't play Dark Age of Camelot. That being said, I wish they weren't doing this. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing, but when they designed Warhammer Online, they wanted to come up with something new and cool, and I seem to be the only one who thinks they succeeded. I *love* the tier 4 territory control meta-game, the pushing of the battlefronts back and forth to enable and disable various scenarios, to put the capital cities more at risk or less at risk. I think of it as a 3 column wide, 5 row deep chessboard where each square has to be fought over. Better yet, it's effectively a 3D chessboard at that, because of the role that tier 3 plays in being able to move the battlefront. I love going on a global chat channel or an alliance chat server and asking where they need more bodies for the push that's currently going on, and being part of a 150 to 200 person effort to move the front line of the war another one to four rows up one column.

I'd love some minor tweaks to the constants so that the front was less static, and I think the "home rows" (fortresses) need a total redesign. But other than that, I think it's just about the coolest design for an MMO PvP system that has ever been invented, bar none. So you can just imagine how enthused I'm not that they're going to encourage half or all of the people who are currently playing that to abandon it, to instead all pile into one zone and fight there. And for what, to move the battlefield in a way that shows up on the mission tracker? No, for very short term access to something. And what is that something? A dungeon. How innovative. DO NOT WANT.

If people want to play Dark Age of Camelot, why aren't they playing Dark Age of Camelot?

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 12:52PM Holgranth said

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I personally agree on with you on almost all of that WAR is NOT daoc v 2.0. and I personally think Mythic is idiotic to abandon their previous assertion of getting the game fully functional in tier 4 before introducing new areas/content.

Even if they continue to give the endgame (and the rest of it for that matter) some desperatly needed polish, it is still going to be lacking if they are off building Tomb King stuff. I would personally would like to see the last two classes added, seige mechanics and fortresses/keeps/city seiges reworked and HUGE amounts of polish added in before more content.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 3:24PM Damn Dirty Ape said

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Having played (and enjoyed) DAoC I think you are being overly pessimistic. Ignoring the fact that an enormous shared dungeon to fight over is actually really fun (danarchy touches on why a few posts down), I believe that it will actually make the RvR fights even better. People who typically are only interested in PvEing will finally enter RvR in order to open up the mega dungeon.

The only worry I'd have is that one thing that made Darkness Falls great was the tug-of-war between the three realms to keep it open. I wonder how well this will translate to two realms, and I wonder how they intend to balance it so that a server with a dominant population on one side or the other does not end up with the new dungeon 90% of the time.
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Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 1:35PM Minofan said

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I expect that Pilley & Keen are going to be disappointed by the criteria they have laid out, as :

a] There are no indicators that Mythic are going to remove the "divide rewards by party members" rule, as that would be a sweeping (positive) change affecting the whole game.

b] 'Real' PvE content doesn't exist in WAR thus far, so it seems unlikely that Mythic are suddenly going to introduce mobs that deviate from the "one attack/debuff and a 30 second respawn cycle" model.

c1] The Influence bar system is EXPANDING to every event and RvR region, so there is no basis for believing LotD will buck the trend.

c2] WAR doesn't DO itemisation - expect all the current skins yet again with the stat combos not already covered (some will be the ideals and some will be atrocious tangents), which will not exactly set hearts aflutter.

The mysterious part will be how control of LotD is integrated with the rest of the world ; if it is closely tied then the usual dominant realm will just get it as a perk for no added effort, but if it is separate then activity everywhere else will be diminished.

Personally I'll predict that LotD control will be completely independent of the main campaign, as I don't see how it will make any waves if access is bound to the same old campaign features from launch.

That would certainly have a big negative impact (at least temporarily) on the core campaign, but it should make the LotD itself exciting and - more importantly - showcase 'real' PvP ; forcing everyone into a single area would seem to be the best way to counter the current "players vs NPC defenders" phenomenon.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 1:54PM (Unverified) said

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First off Brad, I stopped reading after "I didn't play Dark Age of Camelot." You have no frame of reference and as usual just run off at the flame filled mouth.

My fondest memories of daoc were the relic raids and more specifically DF. I will never forget the hours of fun me and my guild had after the dungeon got flipped and we spent the rest of the night avoiding the alb zerg while massacring their pve groups. Occasionally this would include everyone finding a safe corner and logging out for a hour or so, a mechanic I hope they don't prevent in the new dungeon! It sure added the object of surprise when 40 enemies suddenly appeared behind you out of nowhere. To this day I STILL heal standing with one eye on the group and one eye behind me...
Their were so many cool things about df, that could be easily integrated into WaR. I wholeheartedly agree with the token system. The flipping should be difficult but no so difficult a full warband couldnt pull it off in a hour or so. There should also be a short lock timer so it isnt just flipping back and forth every 15 minutes. Give the side that owns it a chance to get their groups together and fill it up! Also they are going to need to turn off the chicken effect in here. Yes your lvl 15 alt is going to get pwnd. Get used to it and log your main out near where you are xping!
God I hope they pull this off without jacking it up too much. I really miss df, if i could stand daocs graphics i would still be playing it likely.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 2:30PM Mr A said

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The original Darkness Falls was a text-based MUD created by Mythic that you played using a special client they provided. Not having played Dark Age of Camelot myself, I'm not sure if anything more than the game's name was transfered over.

It doesn't really matter though. Warhammer Online is already such a parody of the Warhammer setting that they could stick huge walking marshmallow men in there and it wouldn't surprise me.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 3:19PM Pingles said

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What made Darkness Falls so great (and this is from a PvP-hater) was that it was so different than what was out there in the MMO world.

The idea that the new expansion will only be good if it mimicks DF closely is a bit of an insult to Mythic.

Hopefully they will innovate and throw some new ideas in there instead of just copy/paste-ing they're previous successes.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 3:23PM (Unverified) said

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I think with the last addition of two new classes they lost me. The intros were nothing special. The Beer event was not up to the Heavy Metal standards. They do seem to be rushing out content maybe feeling pressure from the latest release from WoW.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 6:01PM (Unverified) said

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Mythic is in a hard spot (as usual). I think there is a huge cap between "old" MMO veterans and the "new" generation MMO players (for a lack of better term to come in mind). As witnessed by the influence system the "new" players are clearly driven by carrots. They need to get something. The "old" players seem to think there should not be any carrots and that's how the first RvR lakes were built. They ended up empty.

I've never understood the drive for gear, but can't say that I haven't fell for it myself sometimes. But the fact is that it drives a huge amount of players and mythic would be stupid to not take that in account.

I do agree that PQ's are overused, I think it starts right from t2. There are propably 1-2 quests per hub that doesnt lead to PQ area. (Not only is that a bit much, but it makes soloing quite hard.) I have a feeling that LotD will be closer to Gunbad with twist though, with RvR PQs, influence, the whatnot.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 8:57PM (Unverified) said

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I used to play DAoC. I do have to say that Darkness Falls was amazing. Not only was it a fun dungeon in general, but think of all the trickle down effects of adding a realm controlled dungeon.

Darkness Falls was only open when a realm earned it. In DAoC there was 3 realms fighting over access to Darkness Falls. I think only having two realms in WAR will create a more heated tug of war for control of the dungeon. I haven't read up on all the ins and outs of how it will be handled in WAR, but I hope control of Lands of the Dead is tied to control of keeps in oRvR. WAR has been struggling with getting players to participate in oRvR and I think a massive awesome dungeon is just the carrot on the end of the stick WAR needs to get players to want to participate in oRvR.

Lands of the Dead will basically be an RvR dungeon. There were always people who logged out in DAoC and then tried to kill players. It was great. It just added to the tension. It would fit the WAR universe and further differentiate them from WoW.

I have faith that Mythic will get things right. As soon as I found out about Lands of the Dead I reactivated my account. I'm betting that it will add greatly to the game.

Posted: Feb 2nd 2009 10:14PM deluxe2000 said

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For any who didn't play DAOC (for shame! :p) Darkness Falls wasn't an instanced dungeon or a raid only dungeon. It was akin to Moria where the deeper you went the more difficult the monsters encountered. If you went deep enough you did encounter raid monsters, but DF was 95% PvE goodness for all, level 20+ (cap was 50).

I agree with others who have posted here, control of the Land of the Dead needs to be part of the overall ORvR scheme. Another carrot for ORvR participation!

In DF each realm had its own entrance and large wing to PvE in and trade tokens in at the merchants. WARs new dungeon absolutely needs the same mechanic, with you being able to traverse the dungeon to get to the enemy wing if you want to completely clear it out of potential gankers.

I wonder if this zone will be somewhere on the map, with entrances on each side for Chaos/Order? Or something you zone to.

Posted: Feb 3rd 2009 7:07AM (Unverified) said

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I'm having a very hard time understanding why the token system is so good. Isn't this adding a second currency that will have a fluctuating to-gold exchange rate at auction?

If the point to allow people to accumulate points towards purchasing specific uber-gear, rather than getting random uber-loot drops that aren't wanted, why not just have the mobs drop large amounts of gold/silver and have the uber-gear extremely expensive?

Posted: Feb 3rd 2009 10:42AM deluxe2000 said

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In all honestly, it only worked well in DAOC because crafters could salvage the token bought gear for mats. There was no mining in DAOC - you had to salvage gear for metals (or buy it off merchants which was expensive). So there was always a market for tokens. Whether you were a crafter or just trying to make money DF was the best place for you, which it was why it was always so hotly contested.

Outside of that, it was the lowest quality gear in the game.

So Mythic has to really think about what LOD will bring to WAR's world to drive everyone to want to own it. DF ownership was all about economics. LOD ownership brings?....

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