| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (36)

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 9:41AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
It appears that this article portrays a "no agenda left behind" attitude toward encompassing the breadth of those who want to play the game.

"Less QQ, more pew pew..."

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 10:01AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Obviously there are pros to designing the expansion for a more casual audience as well. One example is that everyone can more easily experience the content they paid for, which is a (mostly welcome) departure from The Burning Crusade and WoW 1.0.

This article has no agenda. It merely points toward a thought-provoking viewpoint that others may not have considered before. In making the game more casual, could Blizzard have unintentionally diminished the casual experience? There are many angles to approach that question from and this is one of them.

If you were commenting on the SOURCE article, then please disregard the above defense of my first post at Massively. I'm not here to defend his opinion piece. :)
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 10:11AM brookep said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
My apologies for not using my Massively account in the previous comment.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 10:11AM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
the problem here is not that blizzard made the game TOO casual, but that both parties involved (casuals and hardcores alike) lack the ability to adapt to a different world view. The problem with change and innovation is that most people can't accept it. People need to start doing the following:

1.Hardcores need to realize that the "epic" encounters are now only as epic in-so-far as you want to make them (tanking three drakes in obsidian sanctum instead of none? you lazy shits?) BE CREATIVE

2.Casuals need to realize that they now have many more avenues than the old dusty version of casual (just go pvp for "welfare" -as the snobs call it) and should seek them accordingly

3.Everyone needs to learn to take breaks and just go do random, enjoyable things in the game like visit their favorite instance or do some exploring or w/e it is that floats their boat; but they need to relax (or hell, go outside perhaps?)

Slow down, smell the roses, enjoy your experience, stop whining, and grow this little thing we call an imagination. Whiny punks ask for so much open-ness and then bitch when you get it. QQ More.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 12:20PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Well put Skeptic...well put.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 3:57PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Exactly.

Actually, I have enjoyed the expansion a lot because of this. I've found I have too many things I want to do, and can do. Back in vanilla WoW, once I hit 50 on my Rogue, I hadn't run an instance at the appropriate level in 10 levels because there was no such thing as a Scholo or Strath PuG on my server during my play window. Forget BWL, UBRS, MC... if it weren't for the BC expansion, I would have likely canceled.

Now my main is 80 and multiple heroics offer good/useful gear, all of them can give me the rep I want as well as badges (which now are still useful once you're fully decked out through the BoA legacy items), and my decidedly casual guild has in the past 2 weeks taken down the spider, plague, and about half of the construct quarters of Naxx-10. I'm also doing all the Northrend quest achievements to unlock the recipe for the DPS caster cape. Forget actually leveling my alts... there's more than enough to do on my main.

I think what Blizz attempted to do was make more varied things for players to do... and make most things not only accessible, but useful. I remember the 4 hours spent in LFG trying to get a specific instance run in BC. If you want to be a hardcore raider, then do the dungeon achievements, or run Naxx-25 with 10 people (my guild accidentally entered Naxx-25 with our 10-man raid and nearly cleared to Patchwerk before someone noticed). The thing is, the normal game progression is no longer on 'hard mode'... you have to choose it.

It you want to ram your head into a wall over & over then try bringing a non-FotM class through Arena.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 4:10PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report

Something I don't understand about the article... it says:

"The casuals are left without any sense of awe inspired by the unattainable and the hardcores will burn through the content so quickly Blizzard may find it difficult to keep up with them."

This begs some questions:

1. Does any casual actually want there to be anything unobtainable?

I'm not really a casual player, but I can't find a raiding guild that runs during my play window in my timezone, so I play the casual game, which is fine, however I don't want part of the game to be unaccessible because I happen to live in the wrong time zone... which was the case in vanilla and BC.


2. Is its Blizzard's responsibility to 'keep up with' hardcore players?

I must have missed that part of the EULA. If you ran the content on beta, know every fight in and out, know all the best quests to pick up gear so you can fly right up to 80 and into Naxx... awesome, but once you beat all available content in a week, don't blame Blizz. Blizzard makes no guarantees about the frequency of content releases. It's not like you can sue them for not releasing content quickly enough.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 10:11AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think its funny how so many blogers are say how easy it is yet not poving they have even done any of it. I am not say it is as "Hard core" as it was in the past. I am just laughing at this "OMG its sooooo easy" yet I bet maybe .01% has done 3 drakes. why not cry that brd is sooo easy. means the same thing. When they put out Wrath, they said it was just a taste of what was to come. I am guessing this taste is the out side of a Boston cream and the really good stuff is just waiting to fill our proverbial mouths with sweet tasty num nums.

But then again I have been playing this game for over 4 years and may just be having pip-dreams. Guess we will just have to waite and see.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 10:14AM (Unverified) said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
The fact that this article even made it to "massive" website doesn't surprise me a bit....

It's a non significant person wrirting on a non significant website about the best MMORPG experience in 2088.


This site becomes inflated by Wow hate minute by minute.

It's good to see the offical Wow forums now show a more moderate picture, because THERE the poster has to reveal his achievements list or hide behind a lvl 5 character making the statements unfounded.


Posted: Jan 27th 2009 2:42PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"It's a non significant person wrirting on a non significant website about the best MMORPG experience in 2088."

2088?!?! Man, this must REALLY be a great game to last that long!

as a side note, how did this guy get back to our time from the future? Was it Terminator style? Should we go to him if we want to live? I'm not Sarah Connah!!!
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 12:07PM Idle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Wow hate? It likely comes from all of the WoW fanboys who post like jacktards on every story from every other game published on this site. They treat this site like it's the official WoW forums and use the same adolescent behavior.

Try being polite, using some manners, acting respectful, and turning off the flame throwers if you don't want to see the WoW hate.

To be honest, most people don't have WoW. They hate the small but very vocal minority of idiots who play WoW and show their collective arses wherever they go. That hate bleeds over into the article comments.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 2:50PM karnisov said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
mmo "achievements" don't make anyone's opinion more qualified than anyone else's. usually the people with the most time in the game are the least objective about the game.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 11:06AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This article is funny to me being that it hits on the name "no child left behind" a program advancing children who didn't quite cut it on paper.

Things I like about this expansion, Arthas is a schmoozer, he's out in person bringing people into his fold, kinda like a good scourge PR rep! "Join me and I will give you cookies." Unlike Illidin who sat up in BT somewhere and we never seen him but for the Netherwing achievement.

I am on the fence in terms of weather or not a casual expansion will have ruined the game. While flying around ice crown I though to my self "ah, another dungeon I will never see" I am a casual gamer and do have a life out side of wow which makes it hard to fully experience the game. I am happy that me and my guild who are also casual raiders might actually be able to get through ice crown with out having to quit our day jobs. Gamer moral is important also!

On the other hand this expansion has several fights that require an IQ of at least 130, so this expansion may be a challenge for some! Finding 25 smart people can be a challenge on smaller servers, or for bigger servers 25 people with out a language barrier. Skill will now have to make up for a certain amount of Suck for some people. Which again is ironic for the "No gamer left behind" style the expansion has taken. I don't think the content is easier, I think our gear is better, if they wanted to make it harder just stop making better gear and have every one fight with the best lvl 70 gear out there.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 11:24AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The awe comes from the achievements. By creating hardcore goals within a progression available to more players, blizzard has done a very good thing on two different levels.

The first is obviously is that more people get to experience the game's content. That's what they are paying for isn't it?

The second is that hardcore raiders don't have the same down another boss raid progression anymore. The raid achievements give hardcores goals and recognition which are awe inspiring.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 11:35AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I don't play WoW, so I can't comment on how it is (at high levels. I played to 20-something, and didn't enjoy it) but someone claiming that WoW is ruined, in any form, is being laughed at by every other developer out there that would jump at the chance to be experiencing the revenue on their own title, from this "ruined" game.

"Can't please them all" is a simple montra that many folks can't accept. But, FFS, Blizz sure can please a metric shit ton... on a "ruined" game.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 11:51AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Although I seem to spend most of my time in WoW I like to think of myself as a casual player as I don't raid and I do not have full epic gear. I like what Blizzard did to Wotlk. The quests are mostly solo able, and if (like me) you get tired of grouping this is fantastic. The quest rewards make it easier to solo most anything.

I can see how some people feel that Blizzard has "dumbed down" the game, but I think that is in removing all the old requirements for advancement achievements. I've been playing for 3 years now, and I think that it's just silly that level 30s get their mounts at a reduced gold cost, that paladins and warlocks can now train rather than quest for their epic mounts, and that players are now allowed to make Death Knights on any server they care to without having to go through and level a character to at least 55 first. For some of us, these new things are a slap in the face because as long time players we had to earn our accomplishments rather than having them handed to us. However, for newer players, this silver platter allows Blizzard to keep roping in new players for more income to create new content that we all enjoy.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 1:09PM Tom in VA said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Oh, cry me a river.

The changes you mention were made to improve the gaming experience of mid-level and casual players and were a very shrewd move on Blizzard's part, as was the changing of so much low-level content to non-elite status so that people have a fighting chance of completing their quests solo if need be. Levels 1 to 60 are pretty much a single-player experience, might as well make it more enjoyable for the poor souls marching through those quests.

As far as the "casual-ification" of WoW, I think it's about time. Frankly, I wish Blizzard would wise up and offer 1- and 3-player versions for all its 5-man instance content, thus allowing players to proceed at their own pace (and solo instances, if they so choose), perhaps offering worthwhile (but different) quest rewards for doing so.

I think WoW is a fun game, but I will not return to it until they make more of the "good stuff", namely, the instances, soloable (and I don't mean soloing Scarlet Monestery with your level 60 toon). The smart money in the future is going to be on MMOs that offer a player more choices in how they want to play.
Reply

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 3:47PM Boruk said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This post is funny.

It's just another way of bringing up the Hardcore vs Casual debate all over.

Blizzard continues to do their own thing with WoW. They listen to noone but the elite guilds on how things should be done. Don't believe me? Look at what guilds are in their beta's... that's right the same guilds that burn through the "new "content in under 5 days after release.

I am a casual player and did like the initial game even though I couldn't get into the bigger dungeons, but I left after seeing hoe "easymode" they made the game.

I like knowing that I can't do everything in the game and that something is left for those select few that have the time and schedule to do the major end-game.

If I wanted to look like I had the end-game gear then they could just have used the same gear model and given it different stats and put it on dailies or token rewards from something else.

They are right though, Blizzard is the one that is killing WoW.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 11:57AM Idle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
My MMO friends at work (6 guys) dropped WAR, LotRO, etc to pick up Wrath after it released. I've had to endure the constant complaints as to how dumbed down the game is now. Funny thing is, these guys aren't hard core. They're somewhere in between serious and casual.

For the most part, they have all shot to 80 and stopped playing to return to other games. It just doesn't seem like Wrath has the epic staying power of the original or BC.

It's probably good they're catering to the casual players. They seem to be in the majority and they're most likely to keep long term subscriptions since they're not going to burn through content, get bored, and cancel.

Posted: Jan 27th 2009 12:25PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"It's a non significant person wrirting on a non significant website about the best MMORPG experience in 2088."

Hate on WoW and the article you want but The Escapist is not 'non-significant'. They have some really well done stuff and some of the most interesting gaming related articles that aren't strictly reviews or previews.

As for the WotLK and the claims about being too casual. I think I agree though I've only really experienced WotLK through many 2nd hand retellings. I don't think it's a game design problem, I mean there's nothing wrong with the way the content is setup. But you've done a massive shift of the game. Vanilla and TBC was all about progressing more and more and working towards 'completing' the content (which was almost impossible for most people). But none the less every day you could log in and have a goal. Something to push towards. Even guilds that 'casually' ran MC/BWL/Kara had something to push towards. Maybe they weren't ever going to finish all the content but just doing something like killing Ragnaros (when AQ40/Naxx was already out) is a worthy goal for people. So you've built up all these rabid fans and even casual base that's expecting there to be these mystical hard fights that they can never complete and their sole purpose in game is to push a little closer to doing them. Then you release WotLK and remove all that. No longer are people looking towards the next milestone/step with awe and wonder and no longer do they have this clear compass pointing them towards what to do. Players keep doing what they did in TBC/Vanilla, blow through the content, and then are stuck scratching their heads.

It's not a problem with game design but you can't just shift up the focus/direct of the game and not expect people to feel the experience is 'ruined'. Give it time and people will appreciate the new direction (or they will patch in harder content) but people have a right to feel like the writer of the article.

Featured Stories

Betawatch: April 12 - 18, 2014

Posted on Apr 18th 2014 8:00PM

Hands-on with Windborne's early access

Posted on Apr 18th 2014 5:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW