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Reader Comments (4)

Posted: Jan 14th 2009 5:58PM (Unverified) said

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One side note on rigs for shield tanked ships. Characters with a great deal of skills dealing with capacitor management(Energy Management, Shield Compensation, Energy Systems Operation etc) can benefit more from using Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard rigs as opposed to the standard CCC rig that you mention here. For example, here's my personal tanking fit for my L4 solo mission running Raven:

Lows: 2x PDS II
Mids: 1x XL Shield Booster II, 1x Shield Booster Amp I, 3x Kinetic Hardeners, 1x Thermal Hardener

This gives a sustained tank of 660dps, and a maximum tank of 1291dps against Guristas, according to EFT while using CCC rigs. Using CDCS rigs will drop your sustained tank to 507 dps, however it extends your total run time by nearly 30 seconds at maximum tank.

The reason I bring this up is because there are some missions out there which benefit from a greater run time at your maximum tank, so having knowledge of that option being available can be very valuable.


Posted: Jan 15th 2009 3:08AM Brendan Drain said

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I always urge people to use CCC rigs. The reason that using CDCS rigs is increasing the duration you can run your tank for is that since each boost takes less cap, you can get more boosts out of your capacitor reserves before they run dry. That value assumes you're running your tank flat-out. The reason you're tanking over 100 DPS less according to EFT is that you're able to run the shield booster less often without digging heavily into your cap reserves. In reality, if you want to tank the same amount of damage, you'll need to run the shield booster the same so you'll be digging heavily into those reserves a lot sooner.

Try this experiment - Swap the CDCS rigs for Semiconductor Memory Cells in EVE Fitting Tool and see what happens. With an overall 52% increase in capacitor reserves, you'll tank for longer on your capacitor reserves and with the increase in cap generated per second you'll be able to run the booster more often and should still tank close to 660 DPS. That makes it outperform CDCS immediately as it extends your tank run time on cap reserves by over 30 seconds AND increases cap per second generated, thereby increasing your sustainable tank DPS.

In reality, most Raven pilots sacrifice a mid slot to fit a Heavy Capacitor Booster fitted with Cap 800 charges. When you need to perma-run your tank, this will let you do so for over four minutes without digging into your capacitor reserves. Remember, that maximum tank of 1291 means nothing if you haven't got the cap to reach it for long. You'll have more than enough space in the cargo hold for enough Cap 800 charges for a mission. The tech 2 version of the Raven, the Golem, has a massive cargo bay and is even better for this.

Another thing is to remember stacking penalty. The third kinetic hardener on your fitting is applied at 57% of normal effectiveness while a second thermal hardener would be applied at about 86% effectiveness. If you're taking roughly 50% kinetic and 50% thermal, there's not much reason to give kinetic so much preference. The only reason I can think of is perhaps if you're outranging the enemy and only being hit by their kinetic missiles. Try switching one of the three kinetic hardeners for a second thermal one and see if you get a performance boost. And you should also give thought to including a damage control module in a low slot as it provides shield resistance and isn't stacking penalised.

Try this tank for caldari missions:
1 x X-large shield booster II
2 x Ballistic deflection Field II
2 x Heat Dissipation Field II
1 x Heavy Electrochemical capacitor booster I (cap 800)

And in the lows:
1 x Power Diagnostic System II (or 2 x if you like)
1 x Damage Control II

And for rigs:
3 x Capacitor Control Circuit I
or
3 x Semicondictor Memory Cell I (a little less cap/second generated compared to CCC but also increases cap reserves by 52% for if you run out of cap boosters).

You'll get around 1000 DPS maximum tank and when you need to perma-run it, you can rely on the cap booster that will last for a minimum of four minutes running constantly before you dig into your capacitor reserves. I think this is much better than relying solely on your capacitor reserves that will last under three minutes (realistically under two if you don't want to let it get below 33% as this will kill the recharge).

Hope this helps, I didn't mean to pick your setup to pieces but I AM the tanking guy :p.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2009 8:21AM (Unverified) said

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On Cap Boosters - Purely for PvP. 800s are far too expensive for general mission use.

On Caldari Missions - Guristas are 75% Kinetic Damage, 25% thermal damage. Go find the damage profiles in EFT and see, I've already run the numbers myself. I"m well aware of the stacking penalty. I'm also well aware that for the specific rats I was talking about, an extra kinetic hardener is worth it. 2x Therm, 2x Kin is excellent for Sansha, however.

Semiconductor Memory Cell - Yea, I know about these too. And yes, they will give you a longer overall run than the CDCS, but there's a reason that I didn't bring up these or the cap booster; you mentioned nothing but T1 modules in the article, designating it clearly as being geared towards a newer player, despite using the Raven as your platform. I brought up CDCS as a cheaper, effective replacement for the CCC, which the SMC is clearly not at nearly 40 million ISK per, 2.5 times the cost of a CCC rig. In my mind, that makes the cost prohibitive for the effect you get out of it.

As for the Golem, it's performance is only slightly better than the Raven Navy Issue(What I'm actually flying), at a cost on the market of roughly double the price. I might get one eventually to make salvaging easier, but meh.

On DCU IIs - The performance boost over 2x PDS IIs isn't huge, and as I haven't delved into mechanical skills any further than I needed to for my Harpy, I won't for a while yet.

On Permaboost Ravens - If you really want to do this right, you'll run 2x Small Pithi B-type boosters, 2x CCC rigs and a Core Defence Field Solidifier(More shield regenerated by boosters per cycle). This will permarun with L3 cap skills, and 4x hardeners, fitting for the rats you're fighting. I don't have exact numbers to hand(EFT got corrupted and I don't have time to download a fresh copy), but I assure you that it will beat out the XL Booster/Boost Amp's sustained defence by quite a margin, and is more than adequate to tank just about any L4 mission, except perhaps Enemies Abound 5/5.

Overall, you make some good points, but in my mind you deviated from the thrust of your article in trying to prove me wrong. You wrote an article aimed at getting it done cheap, and I was giving an even cheaper alternative, with a minimum loss to the overall effective tank. Cheers to ya.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2009 9:49AM Brendan Drain said

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At around 3000 isk per cap 800, the charges you'll use on a typical level 4 mission will cost peanuts. I tend to use only a handful of cap 800s per mission and it costs me less than 20k.

This article wasn't really geared toward shield tanking on the cheap, it was just explaining shield tanking from a basic perspective. I thought it important to name only Tech 1 and named versions so that any new players that looked them up in-game would see that the skill requirements for those modules weren't too far off. The exception was the shield extender II, which I named because it's the single most used shield extender in the game.

You're quite right that CDCS are very cheap (only a few million each) and that makes them good for pilots without a lot of isk. CCC rigs and semiconductors are a lot more expensive but I figured since you're in a high-end mission-running battleship you could afford them and I wanted to try and help you get the most out of your ship.

Regarding a Raven permatank, I put together your dual pithi small booster setup in EFT and it tanks about 588 DPS against 75% kinetic 25% thermal but the shield boosters will cost about 35mil each. It does have the nice advantage of having all of your low slots free for damage mods etc, so if that's all the tank you need for a mission then it's a good idea to load up on damage and speed up your mission-running. It should be noted however that an XL permatank setup can tank up to 1098 DPS under the same conditions and should be a lot cheaper but will use up low slots for capacitor generation.

There are two main schools of thought on the XL permatank and it really depends how many low slots you need to add ballistic control units to increase your missile damage. Either you can go for a setup that uses some of your mids for cap rechargers and frees up a few low slots for BCUs or use all your low slots for capacitor generation and get a tougher tank but less damage.

For the low slots, you can either use power diagnostic systems or capacitor flux coils. The flux coils are surprisingly effective at generating cap, the tech 2 versions work out to be more effective than a capacitor power relay and without the shield boost penalty. Using 5 cap flux coils in the lows lets you use all of your mid slots for shield modules, pushing out sustained tank of 1098 against 75% kinetic 25% thermal damage. Using power diagnostic systems means you'll need at least 1 mid slot for a cap recharger, probably 2.

If however you need a few low slots for ballistic control systems, you would have to sacrifice some mid slots. To fit 3 BCUs, you have to drop the tank to a little worse than the dual pithii setup but you can fit two and easily keep the tank over 700 DPS. It's a balancing act really, and if your experience tells you that a 588 DPS sustained tank will be enough for any mission and you can afford the deadspace boosters, that's brilliant. I personally prefer XL tanks as their maximum potential DPS tanked is much higher and that's useful for if you get into trouble or are doing a mission where you don't know how much DPS to expect.
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