I actually think that's pretty on point. Warhammer and Conan were attrociously boring games for me leveling up...which is why I quit before max level. If you don't have something that hooks you early on, it doesn't matter what's going on endgame.

I beg to differ, tbone, but you're quite wrong. Not EVERY SINGLE MMO with no endgame has failed. Case in point? City of Heroes. To this day there still isn't a very rich endgame in that MMO, and yet the game continues to thrive. In fact, of all the MMO's out there only a few of them spring to my mind when I think of "endgame" content (using the definition of "endgame" as something being radically different from leveling content - namely raiding).

The argument can certainly be made that the most popular MMO ever has a complex endgame that involves raiding, but it wasn't always like that by any means. The initial player base for WoW was built on a game that had, as you put it, "an incomplete endgame." The Molten Core was all Wow Had to offer until about nine months after the game came out. Last time I checked, that lack of endgame content doesn't seem to have hurt their numbers during those first nine months.

I'd rather "grind myself silly" through generic leveling content, and have loads of endgame. I'll generally spend more time in endgame with a character that I like, rather than leveling 15 characters.

And I also hate running around 50 zones to level up with quests. Learning the dynamics of each zone, where you can run and where you can't run. Dying along the way. Find me a nice spot where I can sit and kill loads of creatures. But I can understand why some people would dislike that method of leveling. Games that appeal to both sides work best.

So I agree with tbone, Endgame is more important than leveling content.

"Last time I checked, that lack of endgame content doesn't seem to have hurt their numbers during those first nine months."

It would have if Blizzard hadn't added more endgame content. Molten Core was able to keep their attention for so long because it was still an enigma, and World of Warcraft didn't really have much competition at the time, just Everquest II and Lineage 2 really.

/r Kilawhar

"The Molten Core was all Wow Had to offer until about nine months after the game came out."

I hate to disagree with you, because you make a lot of solid points, but Warcraft had a little more than Molten Core at launch as far as level cap content is concerned. There was also Scholomance, Stratholme (2 parts), Blackrock Depths (arguable). Lower Blackrock Spire, and Upper Blackrock Spire. All of which I believe were initially 10/15 man raids when they were conceived. Yes Molten Core was top-tier raiding, but the other raid dungeons were formidable back then. Just because they're castrated shells of their former selves nowadays that can easily be soloed or done with less than 5 people doesn't make their existence any less significant.

Sorry but I had to take issue with that one thing you said. Everything else is spot on.

Oh yes, and can't forget Onyxia, the definitive raid encounter in the game. Azuregos, Lord Kazzak, and Dire Maul were also significant endgame additions, but that came about 5 months after launch.