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Reader Comments (22)

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 1:56PM (Unverified) said

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And this is why I love the game. At least they seem to truly care about how good it is. It's this kind of caring for the game and it's players that will give them the chance they need to topple blizzard.

I've had a blast playing it since the beginning, but I do see it getting better all the time and I don't have to buy a stupid expansion just to get something that should have been there in the first place. Maybe they could be super awesome and do expansions in EVE fashion and just count it as part of your subscription. I can understand if that isn't feasible though.

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 2:29PM (Unverified) said

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Yep, this is the reason I love this game too. Not working on an expansion until the original game is older, better, and of supurb quality (more so than it already is) is a great way to show the customers they care about them more than making sales on some boxes.

Just look at Age of Conan (yes, I've got to comment on them), they've got an expansion already planned for next year, moved a portion of their original developement team to working that expansion, and yet they still don't have some of the game's main features in yet; and it's 6 months after launch.
http://www.massively.com/2008/08/22/age-of-conan-expansion-concept-art-unveiled/

Seeing games work on box-based expansions before they're even old enough or stable enough to stand on their own two feet with the original is just a sad, sad thing.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 2:36PM Minofan said

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Phew : my optimistic delusions of playable Kemri can survive a while longer.

The 3rd ( of 3 ) major content update - the one that doesn't add/restore careers - has been announced as much bigger than the 1st & 2nd, so that sure sounds like a lot of work to be going on with.

On the negative side though... the end-game is pretty shallow to hold people until ( or even deep into ) 2010, barring some mind-blowing free content introductions.

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 4:09PM Abriael said

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Saying that the endgame is shallow pretty much demonstrates not having tried it at all.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 8:05PM Minofan said

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Umm ; no.

Having played WAR for 2 months, I have seen the end-game.

Heck : one of their bragging points is that you experiencing 'end-game' from T2 onwards !

A handful of sequential visually-indistuinguishable ( currently badly statted ) armor sets to aim for plus 80 Renown Ranks with astronomically escalating requirements - and similarly scaling RR purchase requirements - is not great depth.

Your character has all the abilities they will ever - and 99% of the power they will ever have - have when you hit rank 40 ( even by 30 you can acquire the highest Mastery abilities )... with zero fluff content, after that player satisfaction is entirely dependant on individual propensity for 'realm pride' spirit.

It is VERY cool the first time you are in a 100-player open RvR army / mob, but once you have been through both sides of a T4 siege there aren't really many variations to be had - door, fight, door, fight > win or lose.

I was also among those unhappy few to battle in the capitals during beta, and they just ain't the greatest PQs - even overlooking that capital rank has negligible impact on anyone but city dungeon farming guilds.

There is a whole lot of traffic through T1-3 that says people ( like me ) are reaching 'the end' and finding the most appealing option is simply to start again... Mythic are playing to these fans well by adding / restoring careers as major updates, but this cannot go on forever ( both the adding of careers and enthusiasm for replaying ).

End-game needs SOMETHING more tangible to hook people for the long haul, and Mythic have fenced themselves in to a corner in this regard by eliminating power, visuals, property ownership and crafting progression.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2008 4:18AM Arashikou said

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I don't want to distract from your original point, as this is one of the most in-depth considerations of WAR's endgame I've seen on this site that didn't devolve into flaming, but I have a question.

At one point, you mention "zero fluff content" as a negative. That's not an opinion one often hears espoused - usually people complain about there BEING fluff content. Could you elaborate on why you feel this is a problem?
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Posted: Dec 8th 2008 5:40AM Minofan said

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I am an ardently 'fluffy' player so not sure how mainstream my perspective is, but here goes...

Guild Wars is an MMO - with a heavy emphasis on fluff content - that I love, while WAR is an MMO is a fluffless MMO with an IP that interests me.

Both games have a number of key traits in common, specifically strong PvP aspects, low character plateaus and causal-friendly mechanics.

Guild Wars guild halls are huge, visually spectacular, varied, serve as PvP arenas, are available to individuals and can be augmented with a range of super-expensive recruitable NPCs.
WAR guild halls are tiny, static, irrelevant to general gameplay and available only to groups of 6 or more with a little effort.
=
The fluffy hall is my individual pride & joy, and I visit it every play session without fail ( it is the most convenient hub of NPC services in all the game ) - if new NPCs or cosmetic features became available, then even now I would dash back to GW and grind my way to any pricetag they care to set.
The fluffless hall is simply a place to be trekked to in order to pick up any unlocked teleport scrolls of note - I don't have access to the hall as my new Knight, and I have no cause to even notice its absence.

Hmm ; have to pick up the pace or this will be an epic post !

GW weapons : massively diverse, very characterful, a rare Unique on every boss, zero functional impact = stylish fun & collector obssession.
WAR weapons : minimal diversity, escalating power, already limited choice negated by 'epic' weapons that grant procs which render all other weapons irrelevant = done and dusted when you complete your epic weapon quest chain of choice.

GW armor : very diverse, very characterful, VERY expensive, zero functional impact = visually defining & big money motivator.
WAR armor : minimal diversity, escalating power, already limited choice negated by Ward sets that are required to participate in highest content = nothing distinguishes individual pieces but stats eventually & you have to wear certain items anyway.

GW monuments : everyone has them, displayed in an individual instanced hall, commemorate titles / sidekicks / possessions / toy critters, will eventually impart exclusive game content = lends tangibility to accomplishments & provides further collector motivation.
WAR monuments : soon to be added for the prestige of the top 0.001% PvP population who clock up the most gaming hours = wholly irrelevant to me.

Etc.

It's a little frustrating how two games can have so many core similarities, yet diverge so wildly on the matter of fluff that one game I could only quit by exhausting all content and the other I have to make a concertive effort to get in to.

What's even more frustrating is that - with their IP and casual-friendly mechanics - WAR could have had my eternal loyalty if they had only said "take this plot of land for your character ; here's a list of 50 NPCs & 50 upgrades to work on - see you at the expansion in 2010."
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 3:30PM Jesspiper said

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Funcom needs to learn from Mythic. Not saying Mythic is an overall example to be followed in the world of developers (HELL NO), but when it comes to Funcom and AoC, they could learn a thing or two from Mythic.

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 3:43PM Idle said

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They'll still likely get one out quicker than WoW's schedule.

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 4:05PM (Unverified) said

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Maybe, but after all the problems they've had I doubt it'll come out as smooth.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 5:21PM (Unverified) said

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Didn't Mythic state in the past, before WAR even launched, that they had already begun working on the XPack? They obviously would have had ideas for an XPack, but I could have sworn that they specifically said that they had begun actual work on the first XPack already. Anyone else remember reading that?

Posted: Dec 7th 2008 5:47PM Abriael said

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Actually no, they stated that they designed warhammer online with the expansion packs already in mind, meaning that they won't be afterthoughts, and the game is already setup to receive them without too many troubles, not that they were already working on them.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 5:49PM (Unverified) said

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That is re-assuring. I think Mythic realise that they have to get their game close to perfect as possible in order to retain players. When it works well WAR is far more fun than WoW.

However the times when it does not work well (lag or just lame content) niggles away at my loyalty. Still not sure how long I will stick with it.

It such a shame that Black Guard are so lame.

Posted: Dec 8th 2008 4:07AM Arashikou said

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That is by far the most level-headed and even-handed (and probably some other kind of adjective-body parted) sentiment I've heard expressed on this site about WAR. Also, I agree with it. Every little failure, every night spent remembering better times, reminds me how easy it would be to re-enable my WoW account and see how WotLK plays. Every PQ where an anonymous mass of strangers self-aligns for victory or every keep siege that is hard fought to the bitter end reminds me why I can't imagine playing any other game. It's an emotional tug-of-war enough to drive a man mad. (And judging by the comments flying back and forth on this site, seems to do that to most.)

Here's to hoping this admirable dedication to improving their game - and, implicitly, an acknowledgment that they recognize they HAVE problems - continues to keep our loyalties strong, comrade.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2008 11:23PM TheJackman said

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So the PR guy says "Not working on an expansion until the original game is older, better, and of supurb quality"

Ok I want to see how to see the other citys in the game and get them to make more armor art and more content for free well 15 bucks a month until we goto pay again! Remember everyone they working under EA! Do not believe everything the PR guy tells you!

Posted: Dec 8th 2008 12:01AM (Unverified) said

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Your comment is an absolute train wreck and I am still trying to figure out what your point was.

Don't trust PR guys is what I've come up with so far.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2008 4:14AM Arashikou said

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I believe... and this is just a theory... but I believe he is trying to say that because Mythic is owned by EA, he does not believe EA will let them go several years just improving the core game (improving art diversity, re-adding the other capital cities, fixing oRvR issues, etc.) without releasing another boxed product that EA can sell for money on top of the monthly fee. Therefore, we should take Mark Jacobs' comments with a grain of salt - or, preferably, disbelieve them entirely.

(I should point out that I completely disagree - both because Mythic has so far kept to all promises of content with better speed than even my most optimistic hopes and because of late, EA actually hasn't been behaving all that badly as a company anymore.)

That, or he was trying to make some sort of ad-hominem attack on Jacobs, but I haven't fully deciphered that angle.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2008 5:15AM (Unverified) said

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What the hell were they thinking to begin with?

Posted: Dec 8th 2008 11:47AM (Unverified) said

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The problem is WAR at the end game is rather pointless, and not a whole lot of fun past the first few times. DAoC had something worth fighting over, but all WAR has is a temporary win that gets reset a few days later. This will not keep people, it's simply arcade PVP with a reset button every week.

For a grand scale PVP game, WAR is a flop. There is nothing to hold people long term, no way to really hurt the other side. There is only so long you can brag about sacking a city before it becomes a common occurance, and with only 3 months in the sub numbers have taken a nose dive. Again, a game was rushed out to try and beat the WotLK hype. For this IP and game it didn't have to be that way, but they chose to do it anyway at the expense of the playerbase.

Posted: Dec 8th 2008 11:34AM (Unverified) said

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I pity the first time MMORPG players who start out with Borehammer on line.

The game doesn't have decent server populations, doesn't have PVE standard quests anno 2008 (just look at WotLK quality), doesn't have RvR.
Doesn't have decent professions, a decent AH, a decent economy.

The only thing they have is a certain Mark Jacobs who THINKS he created the best game on earth, but apparently he doesn't realise he must have the weirdest and akward bad taste on this planet.

The game is now being played by 1/4th of its original number of players after ... 10 weeks and is sold on amazon at 40% of its price to liquidate stocks.

EU servers are on low/low all THE TIME;

Please Mark Jacobs stop talking trash on a trash game.

Of course the War fanboys defend it, because they want some other "victims" on their already empty servers. The fact is ... we know (except for the lonely newbee who is unfortunate enough to stumble upon it).

Rest assured: in the end quality wins and War already lost all its hyped up battles (sales wise, subs wise gameplay wise) ... despite the backings of EA.

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