inc WAR fanboys

Considering that "RVR" has less rewards than the senarios that just give combat levels to every noob so they can be compeditive its really not surprising that senarios are more popular.

Warhammer has potentual but if "they" (The devs)were idiotic enough to think that players would to play RVR for less rewards instead of senarios that boost combat levels and give greater rewards I doubt the game will ever get anywhere.

The real reason the dungeons have gone the way of the dodo is the simple unavoidable fact that everyone BUT the fanboys that will be all over these comments have realised.

Warhammer PVE is a pile of llama manure.

Its seriously not fair to compare a game that has been live for 5+ years to a game that has been out for less than 6 months. Given the mechanics that Mythic has in place PLUS their experience with RvR mechanics (ever hear of DAoC?), I trust that as Warhammer matures it will demonstrate how a game built for RvR excels in ways that a game built to quest and raid with RvR as an afterthought fails to hilight.

You talk only about last WoW expansion, in his first four years all these ideas not have presence in WoW... until EA-Mythic anounced that his game will be launched with sieges, you cant compare an only siege BG with have all the game devoted to RvR.

WoW was launched without BG and limited PvP, quest and raids PvE system was copied of EQ, and now sieges are copied from Mythic games.

The problem with WAR is that copied too many WoW things, in the begining WAR RvR was based mainly in BGs, the sieges were introduced along the beta because they recognice that RvR have much more sense and are much more fun with keep sieges needed for territorial control. But they dont remove the BGs and maintain both systems, open RvR and closed RvR compete for the same players.

The second problem are levels and tiers, RvR is based in territorial control not in players leveling throught zones how in WoW, WoW is the most played MMO and many new players walk to other games with a WoW mentality, they login, see the levels and understand that the game objetive are the same that in WoW: reach end game and get epic loot, wrong, the main objetive in WAR is conquer the enemy capital, all the others are secondary. The tier 4 campaing is the real "never ending" game not the leveling. RvR reputation is a great system for player progresion, they can get rid of level based progresion (when you enter in a RvR you are autoleveled to be competitive with people with more level to you, in RvR areas the only real diference between a level 30 and a level 36 in example is gear and skills, not the character level, also you can gain skills througth reputation), in this context leveling tiers becomes an innecesary obstacle and leave half game without use, tier 3 have great RvR content useless when you reach tier 4 (but you faction have advantage in tier 4 if have under control tier 3!)

The real WAR problem is have two main WoW features inside, without WoW style BGs and levels -ok in WoW type MMOs but perhaps not translated to other MMOs types- WAR could be a much best game. With all the maps and content focused in the conquest campaing and not divided by levels or tiers.

But after all actually in my server many people do siege since they introduced new rewards and double xp gain, that is the path for the future. And in some time in the future I have no doubt that we will see tanks and flight machines in WAR, remeber that steantanks and girocopters are tabletop Warhammer features.

A good MMORPG lets you play the way YOU want it. Really? Are you sure?

If there is one thing Blizzard have proven with World of Warcraft is is that a good MMORPG is a game that HAND HOLDS you to every doorstep you need to be at as you progress. There were and are no free choices in WoW. Everything id forced upon you.

Contrarily, Warhammer Online doesn't have the big neon lights and the giant arrows pointing you in said direction. It all flows in the way you decide you want it to, which is why the game is having problems. Mythic Entertainment created a game where you needed to explore to find the dungeons. They created a game where you needed to explore to do the quests. They refrained from including the big neon arrows because the fan base asked them to. When they did, the fan base proceeded to not take advantage of the features they asked for.

Frankly, it is the players problem. Players AREN'T playing WAR in the correct war. They ARE playing wrong. They are doing so because they requested that Mythic leave out the hand-holding that made them so bitter about WoW. Sadly, Mythic are going to put that hand-holding in. Player choices will become limited and with it will come the age old illusion of choice that Blizzard have done so well. In 1 years time, when players ARE playing correctly, Warhammer will have 1 million+ subs. I mean, the subscriber base for WAR is still growing now.

You can't expect an MMO to be perfect from the get go.