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Reader Comments (72)

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 5:21AM organiclockwork said

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Well, with all due respect, perhaps playing a class known for the mass murder, torture, and overall malefic treatment of uh...well...-everything- isn't the best choice for you.

Whether you like it or not, and despite how light-hearted Blizz tries to make WoW, there are still dark themes at play in the Warcraft universe, and they will come to light occasionally. If you get that offended over grim themes, most MMOs aren't the best thing to play.
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Posted: Nov 26th 2008 3:19AM (Unverified) said

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Hi, I'm a Games Designer and this man's comments are as offensive as if you had just posted a page of swear words.

I mean, ye gods, you're playing as a member of the Scourge at the time. Does he know what they are renowned for doing? Does he? Does he really? Cus it doesn’t look like it to me.

Point 1: Ya don't let things go in the game; you can only kill them or befriend them so ya can’t kill them.
Point 2: Ya don't anything go if you’re a member of the 'Kill All Living' League of Scourge.
Point 3: Your will is not your own until after the DK quest set as you are under the control of the Scourge.
Point 4: Lore aspect?! You're a member of the bloody Scourge! They kill things. Do they talk? Who cares, you're the Scourge?! After the quest set you gain free will and can then choose things sure but at that time, causing pain and killing is what you do.

The man would have missed the point of the entire DK section if it were the size of the sun and groping him like a cheap hooker.

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 5:17AM organiclockwork said

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Too lazy to read the other comments, but this is ridiculous. This is a Death Knight only quest. The whole point of the DK quests is that you're supposed to be doing horrible things in the name of the Lich King before discovering the error of your ways and turning to the Alliance/Horde. It's SUPPOSED to be awful, and you're not SUPPOSED to be able to say no because you're under the command of the Lich King. Sorry Bartle, I respect you greatly, but you're wrong on this one.

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 8:18AM (Unverified) said

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I really dislike this quest and think that it should be removed from the game. It just feels needlessly unpleasant and gratuitous - it could've easily been a hypnotizing device or something.

WoW is of course a fantasy world, but when of late we've had quite a few controversies over borderline interrogation/torture techniques (depending on your point of view) it just feels a bit much.

Re. the DK torture quest - I actually have no problem with this - it's showing you how evil the Scourge and DKs are and you're playing a 100% bad guy or gal.

But this quest just seems nasty - I think it's the way that the torture part is almost casually thrown in as if it's just OK and not worth taking a 2nd thought about to torture someone.

I'm loving my explorations in Northrend so far - this has pretty much been the only sour note for me - and quite a big sour note too!

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 9:35AM Tom in VA said

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I enjoyed playing WoW at one time, and in many ways I enjoyed playing Horde even more than Alliance, but I tended to avoid the Undead-based quests because they seemed particularly dark and creepy to me, such as preparing and feeding poison draughts to human and dwarf prisoners in Brill.

One of my disappointments with WoW generally was that it didn't make the Horde faction more noble. The potential was certainly there, but it was uneven. The tauren and orcish quests (and associated cultures) seemed much much better and more honorable to me than the troll-, blood elf-, and (especially) undead-based quests (lots of experiments on captives that left me feeling a bit ... queasy. Lots of hate, thirst for power, and desire for revenge that got old pretty quickly for me.). So I tended to level up my Horde toons in Barrens, Thousand Needles, Feralas, etc.

I guess this is one of many reasons I prefer LotRO to WoW generally. The differences between what is honorable and what is not are more clearly delineated. One basically fights in LotRO for what is right and good; the entire thrust of the game is like that.

I'm not objecting to what WoW has done; I'm just saying that quests like the one described here make me glad I'm playing LotRO and not WoW.

When SWTOR comes out, it'll be interesting to see what they do, as I believe their stated intention is to give players *real* choices (not just "do the quest or not") about how to handle difficult, morally vexing situations.

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 11:00AM (Unverified) said

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I agree with the comments made by Richard Bartle. In fact, I had that same discontent from prior quests in WoW like the one which called for my avatar to assasinate the prisoners in the Stockades. I deleted the quest on multiple occasions, but it seemed as if every other npc I talked to put the quest back into my quest log. If I had been so interested in roleplaying I would have quit WoW due to that bottleneck. Of course, before I went into the quest I had no idea that the prisoners had initiated a prison break, so it raises a question of why a suspect of crime should be killed or even pursued if they are already imprisoned.

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 2:47PM (Unverified) said

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Let me get this straight.

So a guy who made a game like hundreds of years ago decides he doesn't want to do a quest in World of Warcraft and we need to talk about this for what reason?

Posted: Nov 26th 2008 4:03PM Syme said

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Torture is not a "shade of gray" (or even grey). I found it to be entirely consistent within the context of the Death Knight starting zone. Having it in Northrend with no resolution other than "do it or drop it" is poor form on Blizzard's part.

Posted: Nov 27th 2008 1:24PM (Unverified) said

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i look at it this way

my undead warlock that i was playing when i played wow would proble say to himself that it was for the greater good.

so prehaspe it is not a story choice but a char one?

Posted: Nov 28th 2008 10:43AM (Unverified) said

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Oh FFS. Seriously, give me a break.

Posted: Nov 29th 2008 10:38AM (Unverified) said

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So according to Bartle someone held under the thrall of the most evil person in WoW would actually think "Hmmm, I don't think I want to do this? Sorry Lich King!" Give me a break! There is text the Lich says kill or be killed and the Death Knights are completely under his sway.

I would have to assume this is a need for attention to make this comment at all.

Good thing he doesn't play Warhammer - he'd really dislike the evilness of Destruction.

Not against moral dilemma's and making a choice that would change your characters development in a specific direction but in the WoW with the Death Knights the horrific torture and killing the unarmed is totally fitting with the storyline.

Sorry bad call Bartle!

Posted: Nov 29th 2008 8:11PM drypulse said

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wow.. is this post an early april fools joke? god i hope so. nothing like complaining about torturing someone when you've already murdered thousands of "people" and animals right?

you've gotta be shittin me

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 8:51AM Ebylon said

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In a game where you hunt and kill thousands of people from villagers to monsters to bears to dragons to big shaggy bull things, people have an issue with torture? 90% of the game is based on SLAUGHTER! If your 'conscience' can't handle torture after you've plugged up your 10,000th beast with arrows and then took a dagger to its hide and ripped leather from its body, go play... Mabinogi. I dunno. Runescape? Something.

World of Warcraft, not World of Hugcraft. :\


SPOILER
Remember the quest in Arathi Highlands where you kill a bunch of mobs in order to release the Princess from her prison? You're killing some GOOD characters in the process! OH NOES! BARTLE-MAN, WHERE WERE YOU?

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 11:52AM (Unverified) said

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Yes we should stop the torture quests and get back to the Assassinations and beheadings.

"they've missed an opportunity to make something thought provoking" Write your own quest for your own game.

We're all Jack Bauer now.

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 12:10PM (Unverified) said

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Haha, I find everyone getting up in arms about this completely rediculous; not that i am putting down following the lore of quest chains, but because i am more of a do-stuff-at-max-level kind of guy, i didnt even read the quest log or what i was supposed to do. I knew it wasn't a giant quest chain as some others that are required to actually unlock something, so i just followed questhelper and didn't know it was about torture till i saw this thread. Seriously people, grow up, look at yourselves arguing about whether or not to do a immoral quest in a fictional game....

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 12:36PM (Unverified) said

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Uh... the Horde and Alliance going into Northrend are in very real danger from the Lich King. There is a whole continent eager to kill any adventurer and turn him into Scourge. Paranoia and treachery run rampant, so it's not crazy for you to see some torture being used in the 'good guy' quests, especially when your life (and the lives of hundreds of npc's) is on the line.

It's totally justified, imo. This is *WAR*Craft. The RTS games were ruthless, and I like to see some darker elements once in a while. Go join DEHTA!

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 12:35PM (Unverified) said

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Even our current president said waterboarding was ok - because they're terrorists, you know? And the U.S. is supposed to be the good guy...we are doing it to protect our country right? What is the difference with this quest?

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 1:31PM (Unverified) said

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I remember this quest. I hit the guy a number of times AFTER I got my info and it was a BLAST!

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 12:56PM (Unverified) said

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I'm very glad Bartle is calling Blizz out on this one. Much as I'm loving WoTLK, I really hated this quest. It felt like my character was being forced by game design into doing something he wouldn't do. Plus, the "oh, torture's fine really and there are never any ill effects" writing of the quest reminded me strongly of "24"'s pro-torture propaganda.

Sure, in theory you can skip it, but you have to avoid quite a lot of enjoyable in-game content in order to do so, and there's no indication that you won't miss much, much more.

Posted: Dec 2nd 2008 1:02PM (Unverified) said

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Personally I wish I could torture MORE people.
I kept spamming the torture rod on every cooldown on the guy just to watch him beg me to stop.
BWAHAHAHHAHAH!
I was disappointed as a Death Knight I couldn't remain in the Liche King's service. I was honored he saw me fit to sacrifice if it meant a chance for him to defeat his arch-enemy. That's what loyalty is.
See? You CAN learn good things from this game.

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