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Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Nov 14th 2008 5:50PM (Unverified) said

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Your ignorance and stubborness are truly the stuff of legends. Instead of trying to position another argument that will only slam into the dense wall of closed minded rage that is your brain, I'm just going to tell you that being the rebel doesn't make you cool in some cases, it just makes you look stupid. You hate a game, cool, but you're in the minority and if telling yourself all the bs you spew on this site on a day to day basis is the only way that you feel better about yourself then fine, so be it. But please for the love of god give it a rest in public. You're like the dudes with politcal conspiracy theories that yell about them on street corners, i.e. no one cares, you're just annoying.
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Posted: Nov 14th 2008 5:56PM wjowski said

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Honestly at this point Warhammer's and Warcraft's lore similarities are, at best, cosmetic.
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Posted: Nov 14th 2008 9:44PM Kyoji said

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I think Blizzard really hit something special with Wrath. I spent a good 2 hours riding around Northrend with my friend last night soaking up every area, and i have to say Blizzard has really outdone themselves. Zone designs are completely incredible, each one as spectacular as the next. I think sailing in to Howling Fjord was one of the most awe inspiring moments the game has to offer. Soaring cliffs with a hint of Norse music and architecture, slow rolling hills covered in grass, its wonderful.

Dragonblight is like something straight out of a fantasy novel, wooded forests pitched into the coldest of winters, dragons battling each other overhead, massive fissures in the ice, and a haunting score to complete it. Sholozar Basin is like Un'Goro 2.0, bigger, badder, and incredibly lush. Crystal Song Forest...well, I've just never seen anything like it. Ice Crown is spectacular, as is Borean Tundra. The whole continent just oozes character, and is a much welcome departure from the bleak, other worldly feeling of Outland.

As far as the quests go, sure, some are the same. I cant comment too much, I've only done about half the quests in Howling Fjord, but the "kill x" quests I've had to do have almost always had some twist, or have been tied to some larger quest in the same area, such that you get extra credit for the monsters you'd have to kill anyhow.

I'll be the first to admit WoW is not a perfect game, nor is it for everybody, and the true test for Wrath will be the endgame content. But first impressions are important, and so far Blizzard has completely blown me away.

Posted: Nov 15th 2008 1:18AM Abriael said

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Your post makes me wonder if you ever played another MMORPG, because the zone design in WOTLK isn't bad, but isn't definately anywhere groundbreaking. Several other MMOs (starting from Warhammer and AoC, but going even a lot backward in time, like Final Fantasy XI) did a lot better with zone design.

Wotlk definately doesn't have the juice (nor the art direction) to beat AoC's Eglophian mountains or Keshatta, Warhammer's Dragonwake, Black Crag or Avelorn and many, many othe fantastic areas in which other developers put an attention to detail and an art direction to which blizzard, with it's over the top use of gloom and bling, flat landscapes, low detail and honestly quite banal environments, doesn't even come close.
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Posted: Nov 15th 2008 7:12PM Kyoji said

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Have YOU even played Wrath? Check my comment history and you'll see that I've played many MMO's. I never called Wrath ground breaking, and presented my observations merely as opinion, to which I am entitled mine and you are entitled yours. However it seems you have a bone to pick with Warcraft for whatever reason, and I realize open minded discussion of things that Blizzard, even in their terribly sad state, may have done right might be hard for you.

I did not belittle the achievements of other MMO's, nor did I discuss Wrath in relation to any others. I don't see why you feel its necessary to attack something you don't like at every opportunity that presents itself. Its pointless, and makes you look like a fool who cant handle objective discussion.
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Posted: Nov 18th 2008 10:40AM (Unverified) said

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Here here! Me and my gf were riding around Howling Fjord, we came over a rise and we could see the whole of Utgarde Keep. It was honestly one of those "breath taken away" moments, it was huge and with the increased view distance in WotLK you could see all of the surrounding scenery for virtual miles. WotLK is truly beautiful.
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Posted: Nov 17th 2008 6:02AM (Unverified) said

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Comment to Abriael (I like that nickname btw - grtz).

Please stop making a fool out of a very intelligent person like yourself.

The problem is : WotLK is incredible in design at the moment. And comparing it to games like AoC or War makes you really really look pale.

I can't possibly think of ONE other land or scenery that could even slightly compare with the first Fjord zones of WotLK. In whatever MMORPG I played and in whatever land of Wow/TBC.

The open world of Blizz just got bigger again and I am not talking of "space" but rather the tremendous views of the Northrend continent and quest quality.
If you play it without add ons and aids it is an incredible rpg experience, just like every new MMORPG should be of course.

The problem is ---- no one has the means at the moment to invest millions and millions of development money into an MMORPG like Blizzard has.

This and just the plain fact Blizzard already delivered very good PC games in other domains (think about SC or Diablo), shows what a huge difference there is between Wow and the EQ series and badly designed trash we had to ENDURE these past months.

It's money my friend that makes the difference. Money gets you the best artists, the best programmers, the best music, the best writers, the best game play testers. The BEST talent you can afford. And Blizzard is led by brilliant (ex)players. That helps.

It is simply a question of me competing the 100 m dash against Carl Lewis.

Please don't make a fool out of yourself and just play WotLK yourself. You'll stand in awe. Only fools never change an opinion after experiencing something.

And as long as you didn't experience it yourself, you will only embarass yourself. If you ever played it and still have a lvl 50 something, just try the DK series and go to Northrend.

I know NOW why the Beta testers were so positive (with some Wow haters around I was surprised to few negative comments came from the Beta).
NOW I finally understand. If you don't applaud for these sceneries in MMORPG's, just stop playing them.

Posted: Nov 18th 2008 5:40PM (Unverified) said

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According to cynical people, 11 million + immature teens play this game. oh grow up, good fraction of those 11 million people are people with full time job in professional industries. Another words for 'dumbed down' game may be 'casual' game, minus the raid aspect of the game.

I work full time and WoW has managed to give very good casual gaming experience on levelling. Plus, every time you create different class, it's as if you're playing a new game. You know, like playing protoss to terran to zerg? I've tried warhammer for a month and it still feels like it's in beta stages...

If you want to cry lack of social-ness in WoW, get some out side the game maybe. or play with your friends, it's still good fun. Sorry you didn't find your wife in WoW!

Posted: Nov 18th 2008 12:45PM (Unverified) said

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wow is more accessible

and it's a good thing

it's very hard to make things accessible, it's very difficult.

and blizzard did that many times. it's their trademark and I thank them for that.

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to make things accessible is great. it's not about simplification or dumbness but all about easiness, help people to use your game , and in the end to love customers.

Wow is accessible and all games should have the same polish and attention to details to help the player to master the game.

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Babylon 5 was not great because people debatted all little hint in a secluded internet forum (the lurker, I loved that website), but because the story was good, the actors was good and the author make a point to tell ONE story and help watchers to be reminded of it.

all first episodes in a season helped people to have answers about the precedents. Many episodes was fillers to help people to relate to the characters or breath a little from the Main Arc.

yes, it's simply that : good products have good success.

even that teenage movie you hate , if it has great success it's because it was good for its public. People are not stupid.

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in the end, Blizzard is right : they promote game to no-gamers, makes game easier to relate.

it's true warcraft is a blatant rip of of Warhammer.

I played warhammer fantasy rpg for tens years and read many w40K sourcebooks. I know it. blatant rip-of

but look the video game !

it's the best adaptation of Warhammer, it's the best way to present the fantasy, the best characterisation and the best accessible game to it.

it's not dumber, there are many stories inside one warcraft game, and many works in tiny details to show "cultures". (for example , the tomb of the paladin founders, totally just gratuitous details)

but the work is all about to present that to players.

Warhammer never had a so good game and so good adaptation of his writings and painting in a video game.

and now, Warcraft a more than 10 years of story behind it. Blizzard can build upon it and the public know it

more than warhammer.

can you fathom that ? the public knows more warcraft than warhammer.

is it simply copy of generic fantasy 2 ? no. It's all about the execution and works behind.

the slow building upon it.

warcraft 1 was a simple game
warcraft 2 was better with a simple story

and so on.

and the execution was always top notch.

World of Warcraft is in the end the virtual Warhammer I dreamed when I was a kid : Fun, Massive, Well done.

and yes, it can be very painful for fan to realize it.

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Game workshop should ask millions of $ to a bank and make videogames themselves many years ago, and make the games a PART of THEIR brand. and one day, to push the "warhammer online"

so, they would sell the warhammer fantasy, warhammer 40k and warhammer fantasy online

3 majors products managed by themselves, totally synchronized, sold together like unified products.

but no, they always sold the rights to any companies willing to (but with blizzard they failed, it was a mistake), and let minors game to hurt the brand.

and worst, all game adapted from 40K, space marines or fantasy are differents. from differents companies

no unified brand, no continuity, no public awareness.

I say, Game workshop should have made these games themselves, under their _total_ control

not only "ip" control, but the whole thing : sells, artistic, gaming style and so on.

now it's too late. they should have done that in 90s, when game was simpler, when the company would be able to learn slowly.

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simply that : blizzard is the new game workshop.

painful to read, I know. call me stupid if you want. read the facts.

(ho and yes I like to go in a game workshop shop sometimes, there are still kid playing and many books with good arts. but videogame ? naah, it's over, even with the new warhammer online. it's just a mythic game, nothing more.)

Posted: Nov 18th 2008 3:36PM (Unverified) said

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I've played other mmo's in the past, and they were awsome, but wow stuck with me for many reasons...

I originally started out playing Everquest (on a free server >.>...) way back when. The graphics got a little old so I slowly stopped logging in. Then, my friend introduced me to Guildwars. I loved the no monthly fee and playing with my friends was awsome.

Eventually, I got bored with the game. A lack of any end game besides grinding for obsidian shards grew old (this was original Guild Wars, I havn't been keeping up with it, things may have changed).

Then my bf introduced me to wow and I havn't looked back since. Here's a few things that I noticed were done right while leveling and in end game.

- Skills were introduced slowly, which allowed newbies to make their own attack rotation

- Humour: I love how there's extra little flavour texts in the game here and there (like the Boomstick!)

- The cartoony graphics, which I admit, took some getting used to, are actually a great idea. It takes a lot less effort to make graphics cartoony than realistic, thus keeping system requirements reasonable. Plus it allows for some pretty crazy and creative landscapes. (those crystal trees in nothrend look awsome!)

- All my friends and my bf play, and I want to play with them. It makes the game more fun. It may sound like a "i'm forced to play only cuz i kno people in the game"... but I like the game...

People all have their reasons for playing different games and I don't mind that at all. If people don't like wow, they don't have to play. Simple as that. It's a game. However making ppl that are making their game choice some sort of political statement are just being plain silly. And trying to force their views onto other people is also silly. meh.

Posted: Nov 19th 2008 7:31AM (Unverified) said

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On a purely landscape based point:

Only 2 other games have ever given me the breathtaking world design factor that Northrend does. Only two games ever.

These are Morrowind and Fallout 3. Both single-player RPGs by Bethesda softworks. For an MMO like WoW to manage that is a serious achievement. Don't get me wrong, it's not always been like that for WoW. Outland made me cringe, and while mainly fairly good the old world was a bit too restricted for my tastes.

Now I admit have not played LoTRO, nor Warhammer Online. As an avid LoTR and Warhammer fan in my early teenage years I find the very idea of MMOs based on the two franchises slightly abhorrent, I can vaguely imagine Tolkien spinning in his grave. But of the MMOs I have played Northrend is easily the most engaging world space.

Posted: Nov 19th 2008 1:00PM (Unverified) said

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While I won't disagree that WOW is more simpler in many aspects, saying it's dumbed down like reality tv is ignorant at best. Two completely different genres, even if we just take pc gaming as a whole rather then MMO's. Blizzard has opened up the pc gaming world to a mainstream audience that it never has had and MMOs to the same fashion. TV was an established product.

The point of WOW stealing from Warhammer is absurd in many senses as well. Because either you need to acknowledge that Warhammer stole its content from fiction (i.e LOR) or many others, or you were going to point out that Warcraft I the PC game was similar to a tabletop game in what manner?

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