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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 1:16PM Triskelion said

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That's a stupid post - PQs are the best thing to happen to PVE in a long time. Sure, there are ways to grief people, as is the case with any MMO, but the benefits, fun and loot far outweigh the negatives. Plus you get exp from killing the mobs too, so even if you stay and slowly grind your way to max INF you're still getting PVE exp.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 1:55PM (Unverified) said

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The whole game is "anti-social"

It's simplistic, there is no need for talking to anyone. There is no "real" crafting, no need to interact with other players for any reason but combat. PvP is random match ups. Public Quest are on rails.
Honestly, the only type of MMO player this game is going to appeal to is the point harvester and loot gatherer.

Its so linear, it hurts.

If social aspects have any sort of meaning to you, you are not going to like this game.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 3:02PM Nadril said

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Meh. This just sounds like the typical "sandbox" player who looks down on any other kind of MMORPG as a lesser experience.

There are plenty, plenty opportunities to socialize. If you want to get anywhere in RvR you are going to want to group up with others, form guilds. Sure a solo player CAN contribute to the goal but it is the guilds that will be the backbone of your side. PQs and open groups both encourage random grouping as well.



To a bit more of the original blog, I find the comments that PQ's are anti-social incredible. For one they have plenty of opportunities to get people to really work together. Tanks go out and tank, healers heal and the DPS dps's down the mobs. Sure, there may not be a lot of actual chat but it doesn't mean everyone is suddenly out to screw over others.

Likewise I don't think there has been too much on the higher level PQ's yet that many people have gotten to experience, except for closed beta players. I am willing to bet that the higher level PQ's are more difficult and will require a bit more thought than these lower level ones which feel more like a zerg at times.

And anyways, since when is competition "anti-social"?
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 3:27PM (Unverified) said

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I haven't been in the WAR beta long, but I've been playing A LOT since I got it and I've yet to encounter a single jerk doing PQ's.

As for saying that WAR isn't social, I completely disagree. Everywhere you go, there is a clear sense of being part of a greater struggle. A lot of it can be solo'd, but it's far more rewarding to work as a group and the open party system makes that extremely easy.

I agree that the social aspects are almost exclusively revolved around combat, but it stands to reason that this will change as the game grows and gains a sense of community. Plus, things like crafting have obviously not been given much polish and I'm sure they'll be making major changes to it.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:07PM (Unverified) said

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@ Barth

Healers are tracked differently and scored due to healing, not damage. If that weren't true, I wouldn't be able to get a 500 contribution score when I didn't touch a single mob.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:57PM (Unverified) said

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I agree to a certain point. Conversation is often on the low from my experience, but I know it'll open up more 20-40th+. Right now people are just learning how to play, not as casual as a group of people that have been playing for a year.

I think it has a lot to do with the flipping chat windows. Only showing combat OR (not and) conversation is a pain in the ass. The interface needs some tweaking, I feel less aware of damage I'm taking/dealing/healing/etc for whatever reason. Hopefully some mods like the best from DAoC will show up.
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Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:31PM (Unverified) said

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Just because you don't run your PQs in a team doesn't mean they don't promote teamwork. Sure, you CAN solo in a PQ, that really doesn't mean that you should. I love to run PQs with my favorite teammates, and we get better scores because of it.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:26PM (Unverified) said

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Haha! :D

I still think PQs are WAY more social than the WoW 120h grind to lvl70 in which time you wont utter a word to anyone.


Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:26PM Softserve said

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Killing one thing won't help either, though lol. The game will say something to the effect of "You didn't contribute enough to be eligible for loot".

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:32PM Softserve said

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I think it's just what you make it. If you don't want to talk with anyone or group up with anyone at that PQ, that's your own perrogative... much like you don't have to talk to people while doing pretty much anything in any MMORPG.

The PQ just provides a venue where tons of players will be at once outside of towns. Actually talking to people is your responsibility, not the game's.

If I see someone getting wailed on, I help them or I heal them or whatever else. The PQ's certainly promote just running around and killing everything in sight, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

If anything it promotes isolated behavior in people who were going to make themselves isolated anyway. People not talking to others are not going to be aware of groups formed, tells sent or anything outside of the "say" channel.

I think you have to consider that solo players aren't going away. Typically they'd just be ignored, but in WAR they simply WILL participate in PQs. Suddenly you have a bunch of people who don't want to talk in a very group based situation.

I think some (if not most) solo players will just pop in, finish the PQ and run away, but I imagine some will realize that playing with others is FUN and not just an inconvenience.

If that converts a few people over then I think that's a good thing.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:42PM Celestian said

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He's a nutter.

The PQ's allow for groups and solo players to work together towards a goal. How the hell is that anti-social?

He must thing open groups are a bad thing too.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 2:41PM (Unverified) said

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I played a healer in closed beta, open beta, preview weekened, etc. and I have to disagree with his post. People never let things run over and kill me - even if a random trash mob came over people would jump on it. People were happy to group up and do the PQs, and at the end often said things like "Thanks for the group." Some of the best time I've had in War was doing a couple PQs with a group of 5 other people. Everyone had fun, worked together, looked out for each other, etc.

Maybe the problem is, the guy writing this is anti-social?

PQs are not perfect of course. I'd like to see healers get more influence for the PQs, because right now it is discouraging to heal when pewpewing gets you more influence. Also, PQs need their own GYs or need a GY right next to them. A couple of the PQs are very imbalanced too, and some are always empty, which means they probably need more quests taking people there.

Still I think the PQs are a good idea, can be a lot of fun, and are a good way to meet people. I met more people in War open beta this week than I did in my first 20 levels of Warcraft (back when it first came out).

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 3:14PM (Unverified) said

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Exactly.. this is precisely how it feels. Rather than a "public raid" where you help each other out like they were hyped, it feels more like you're just competing to get that #1 spot. As far as I know, you only get contribution points for doing damage. From the outset, that greatly favors certain classes, and doesn't encourage the healers to "do their job." From what I've seen, the healers typically run around dotting everything and then healing themselves, ignoring those trying to tank.

All that said they are still fun. :) Time will tell whether they remain fun though. Scripted events only have so much staying power.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 3:41PM (Unverified) said

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I have found my 8+ hours of playing PQs (actually playing PQs not just 8 hours of the Beta) to be the exact opposite of this rant.

I am a healer, and often get one of the top places because the game takes Healing into account for awarding loot.

As a healer, all I had to do was /say "help" and 3+ DPS and a tank would run over to get a mob off of me, even if I was not grouped with them.

Also, in almost every PQ I ever did, almost everyone formed a single open warband (raid group) and keep it open.

Additionally, influence is not some super-valuable rarity that will temp most people into actively screwing each other over. Anyone that does actively try to max their benefits in a PQ by screwing over everyone else, probably does that in any online situation regardless if it is a PQ or not. They probably even try to screw people over in real life when they think they can get away with it.

While it is true that most people don't chat much during the fifth time they have run about killing trash mobs during stage 1, I have found that people do communicate during the transition to the second stage and during the third stage. for instance the phrases "Everyone group" or "Fall back and meet up" would often be communicated and listened too when stage one ended and stage 2 began.

I have almost never been fighting a trash mob that was gaurding an object on the ground that need to be collected and had another player ninja it from me. Most experience player know to avoid doing this. Perhaps the reason the author of the original rant believes that this happen allot is because he did it to other people and they returned the favor...

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:06PM (Unverified) said

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Psh, read a little closer.

1. I never said that players will ALWAYS act in a negative manner just because you let them.

2. In the end I explain that I really like Public Quests, and I'm only treating them this way because they have more potential than any PvE system added to traditional MMOs in a long time.

3. I was being a little sarcastic the entire time. ;)

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 4:52PM (Unverified) said

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I believe the direct quote is "Players are a-holes." Not "jerks". I agree with that. Before even getting into the game, I got the feeling that PQs were going to be more about every PC for himself/herself. I went into my first PQ with that attitude. The system is made to foster that kind of play the way it is designed. I think that design is unintentional and will be fixed down the line. I still love PQs because of the competitiveness.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 7:31PM (Unverified) said

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Just someone seeking attention by bashing the game. Ignore them.

Posted: Sep 11th 2008 8:59PM UndeadAreGo said

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I like how everyone is judging the PQs based on the opening portions of the Beta. By level 10, teamwork is essential to PQs. There is simply no way to survive without. Even then, the idiot who runs around trying to get the most points is going to be dead in a few seconds anyway.

And the bit about going solo for 100pts a pop is pretty much crap as well. You could spend 20 minutes trying to solo the first portion, then wait around another 20-30 for the re-pop. Or, you could group up and do the same PQ three times over in that time, gaining even more points.

Posted: Sep 12th 2008 1:40AM Jeromai said

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Exactly. Some of the later PQs on the second tier map were already beginning to get complex. I have this feeling by the time tier 4 hits, it's going to feel like fully fledged raid encounters with gimmicks and all.

Eg:
Stage II: Kill 6 of some lieutenant type mob. Except for each Lt. you kill, two smaller mobs jump out and make a beeline straight at you.

I was in a 3-man tank-healer-DPS team slowly nibbling down each group one at a time. We watched 2 soloists make a beeline straight for the Lts and decimate 3-4 of them in a couple hits. Then we giggled as 8 wolves jumped them and they ran screaming into the woods for a long way before dropping dead. So much for lots of influence from that.

Stage III: Kill some big boss as your final goal. Except this big boss spawns lots of smaller mobs at intervals.

Lonestarring by going straight for the main goal = rapidly producing way more than anyone can handle = massive wipe of everybody. So much for those fat loot bags at the end.

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