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Reader Comments (66)

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 2:13PM (Unverified) said

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As a beta tester, I believe the game certainly has the potential. I think it will all depend on how well the end game City Sieges will play out, and how fast Mythic can bring out new content.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 2:23PM Anatidae said

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WoW is a strong game.

I think WAR is a strong game too.

After a couple weeks in the beta, I am jazzed to get into the WAR game fully. They really make PvP(RvR) seem more fun than ever. Plus, if your into quest grinding, they have that is spades. And, the public quests are pretty rocking. They are all simple in many ways, but it forms up people rather spontaneously in a good way.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 2:45PM (Unverified) said

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WAR will NOT kill WoW but it will hurt a little. By the time a WoW killer hits the shelves WoW will already be dwindling (but not dead). Then we will be bantering about the question...Do you think "X MMO" would have killed WoW if it had come out during its peek?

I have not played WoW in well over a year and Litch King will probably not bring me back. The time requirements for the minimal rewards were as appetizing as a bucket of dust covered whiskers. WAR should be fun but as someone said, WoW has a heck of a culture built around it. It's also a pretty good game that has adapted (too slowly for me) with player needs. The next 5 years of WoW will be interesting as we see they are willing to bend the game to accommodate player plateaus and changing times.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 3:36PM (Unverified) said

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I hope WAR does poach a huge segment of WoW's playerbase - the PvP folks that Blizzard's pandering to at the expense of the PvE game effectively screwed.

I won't cry a single tear if the Arenas are desolate and cobweb-strewn once WAR goes live. They were a mistake to begin with, and the dev time and itemization suck that would have been far better spent on material for the majority of the player population, not a few rabid loudmouths.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 4:10PM Ripper McGee said

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In short, no. Why?

1) WoW is a polished product - anything new will need to have as many or more better or equal features in order to compete. That's a tall order for a new product. How many games have incredibly good, solid releases? Not many - Vanguard's was dismal, AoC has had problems, Hellgate was rife with issues - the list goes on... LotR had a pretty clean launch and has a huge base of fans for the core IP and hasn't come close to touching WoW.

2) Millions of players have 'invested' time in WoW - they survived the grind - why would they want to do it again, especially the more casual players? They might try a new game, but will come back to their old, comfortable characters.

3) WoW runs well on low-end machines. In order to compete, a new product will need to forgo newer, shinier, more realistic graphics in favor of existing technology. While new tech is cool, it dramatically limits the overall number of players.

4) WoW appeals to the masses, both "hard core" raiders and casual players. Any new game will need to appeal to as broad an audience (casual players, soloists, raiders, PVPers, etc...) in order to compete with WoW.

Show me a new game that has strong appeal to a variety of player demographics, runs well on existing hardware, not leading/bleeding edge systems, is feature-rich and bug-free at launch and that'll be a WoW-killer. As of now, that game is imaginary at best. The best that any new game could hope for is to be unique enough to carve out a healthy chunk of players that are willing to (consistently) pay for their product, thereby ensuring future development and profit.


Posted: Aug 20th 2008 6:12PM (Unverified) said

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Oh another WoW killer post within hours of the previous one? Creative though the topic could be.. you know.. slightly more original/less fanboyish..

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 6:14PM (Unverified) said

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Ofc WAR will beat WoW, it's a much deeper game and with less boring powerplaying geeky skill tweaking template talents bullshit.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 6:27PM (Unverified) said

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My wife and me we had been playing WOW for almost a year but havent played it in 5 months now. At first we quite liked it, but gameplay soon got repetitive and with the BC update it was quite clear to us that Blizzard is going to milk that cow until it is dead, without giving it any signifficant updates (e.g. graphical, quests, etc). The game is designed from the basic concept as a money making machine and this shows everywhere and it just does not make me like it more.
the things that annoy us most about WOW:
1. Grinding
2. Stupid quests with more grinding and repetitive gameplay (killing 123 wolfs for 10 tails, grrrr, still mad about that- and yes I counted them).
3. unfinished content (quests in the marches that end in nowhere and were never fixed).
4. slow gameplay
5. no player housing
6. little character customization (6 heads to choose from is by far not enough for me, especially if they all look like shit)
7. bad graphics (it does not have to be photorealistic, but wheels should have more than 6 sides and lips should look like lips and not clefts and so on).
8. Rather slaggish performance considering the bad graphics.
9. Lots of server downtimes and bad server performance that are considered "normal". Well I want a refund for those, sorry! I am paying for playing not for your slacking!
10. no exploration gameplay. I like going places that are off the trodden path and I would really like to discover something cool for doing so, not often, but sometimes.

In regards to PVP, I am going to admit it, I am a carebear PVP player. I will even say "I dont like PVP". Simple reason: I suck at it. I dont have the reflexes, I dont have the coordination and I dont have the time nor passion to get good at it.
I play MMOs to play something together with my wife. We both like RPG games and we like playing together. I do not necessarily need many other players either. Sure it is nice to meet new people in a game and do some questing together, but generally I am happy if I can play together with just my wife.
If there was a Multiplayer thingy in Oblivion, we might actually play that instead. Actually I have been wondering why noone ever thought of doing a MORPG (in contrast to MMORPG). Means a game where maybe 10 players can come together and play (like say a slightly bigger Pen and Paper roleplay group), I could even see up to 60 players depending on the size of the world. In return one could make the world non persistent. I mean a world that would change and react to the actions the players do.
This is something I particularily miss in all MMOs: No matter how many times I kill the evil dragon, the very next time I go by it is still going to be there scaring the very same NPCs that I just had saved.
To me this is a huge problem as it takes away a lot of the motivation for doing something other than for XP for leveling up. It also harms the player- emersion.
I have had some high hopes for WAR, but reading the article here and the comments from people that have already played it make me fear the worst.
The thing about WAR is that I am kinda hoping that the world as a whole is at least going to have some effects of my work (empire winning against chaos, or something like that). Still at some point it will reset and things will start over again.
Now I do understand why that is that way (so it stays fair even for people that join the game later), but I do not have to like it.
Still WAR is already disappointing me in terms of graphics (stylized is OK with me, I just dont like their flat lighting at all so thats bad art direction, I think).
I do not know how many options for character customization it has (but the screens I have seen show rather little options).
Now I read that there is still a lot of grinding, which I totally despise.
So once again this game wont fullfill all my needs (that does not mean it is a bad game and I doubt there ever will be a game that does everything I want).

Personally I have switched from WOW to LOTRO one and a half months ago. It offers a lot of what I want, but is still not ideal. E.g. I would like more character customization and world is too "nice" and lacks edginess (very child friendly game). Of course the world is persistent state. On the positive side, there is less griding, the graphics are nicer, there is a big nice story and almost every single quest ties in with it, there are rewards for exploration players (and for other things too via the achievement system that WOW is now cloning for WOTLK).
it also has player housing and I really love the policy of the developer that brings that much free content updates to the players.
Still as I said, it still has things that I do not like, but then I doubt that there will ever be the ideal game for me, but who knows...
In any case for me personally(!) LOTRO is already a WOW killer and me and my wife will have a very close look at WAR when it comes out. If it does enough things right (that means more than LOTRO), we might find a new "home" there. If not, we will keep searching and playing LOTRO meanwhile.

Posted: Aug 21st 2008 2:50AM (Unverified) said

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"This is something I particularily miss in all MMOs: No matter how many times I kill the evil dragon, the very next time I go by it is still going to be there scaring the very same NPCs that I just had saved.
To me this is a huge problem as it takes away a lot of the motivation for doing something other than for XP for leveling up. It also harms the player- emersion."

I just can't understand people who think like this. How can this bother you? Do you want the dragon in your example to be dead forever so noone else can do the same adventure? You should just play a singleplayer game then.

But I agree with the exploration part, would be awesome to explore "a less trodden path".

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 6:34PM (Unverified) said

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I find Ripper's comments kind of amusing, though at the end of the day I agree with him that WAR won't kill WoW (though perhaps for slightly different reasons).

WAR's graphics are actually quite nice - they settle in between AoC's high-end and WoW's cartoon style. You don't need a bleeding edge system to run it, the minimum requirements are actually quite attainable by most people that have bought a PC within the past five years, and should run well on a system put together within the past two. That's not exactly what I'd call "bleeding edge" technology.

WoW's time sinks have pretty much made it so that if you're not willing to put a significant amount of time into the game (what most people would consider 'hard core'), you won't get far at max level. Elitism runs rampant with the nature of the cookie cutter specs and specific gear requirements. It may have begun as a great game for casuals, but it's steadily moved away from that beginning.

We'll have to wait and see how WAR's launch goes off, so far I'd call it more polished than other recent titles but of course it won't have the same sheen as WoW with its four+ years of development.

WoW's a good game, don't get me wrong - it has low system specs, tons of end game content in the form of raids, and plenty of neat little 'extras' like the holiday events and vanity pets along with a massive social structure that will keep many people playing for years no matter what other MMO's come out. There are people that are borderline fanatical about the game despite the flaws that are there (and yes, as good as it is the game does have its share of flaws as well).

There are others though that are either tired of certain things, or are looking for something new that will try WAR out. If the launch is good I don't know if we'll be seeing them coming back "to their old, comfortable characters". Some will, some won't - only time will tell how it all shakes out.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 6:53PM (Unverified) said

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I'm assuming a 1-2million player base for WAR...And I will be damn happy if that's the case. I don't expect anything to kill WoW. Especially not WAR as they are not releasing in Asia yet if I'm not mistaken. And it doesn't cater to the raid crowd. It probably never will. Mythic knows what they do well and that is RVR. Trying to do something you know your not good at is a good way to fail.

Posted: Aug 20th 2008 10:11PM (Unverified) said

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even though World of Warcraft is by far the worst mmo i've ever played (and i've played more of them than i care to admit), there's no way anything will ever dethrone it. nobody should even try. it caters to such a huge range of people and playstyles and is so ingrained in culture that it's unstoppable by anything until blizzard releases their next mmo; and even then, it's questionable.

however, i think many people are finally getting sick of World of Warcraft, even though lich king is coming out soon. i think WAR, if it's as good as i hope it is, will be able to satisfy a good number of those players, be able to hold on to them, and as a result leave their WoW characters on ice indefinitely.

then there are people like me who despise everything about WoW and like playing other games like LOTRO, Guild Wars, etc. i think out of every WoW alternative out there, WAR has the potential to be the hands-down best one around and as a result will have a huge playerbase that is absolutely insane for the game. the same inexplicable way so many people are insane about WoW.

if you're into deep lore and focus on story in your games (any type of game), from what i've heard about WAR and played of WoW, there's absolutely no contest whatsoever. the games workshop lore is some of the best around. if they stick to it, it has the potential to have the best story-driven gameplay of anything we've ever seen as far as mmos are concerned. i've loved the GW lore for 15 years and no other video game or tabletop game has ever touched it, even the games that have, *ahem*, out-and-out stolen a good part of it.

the only issue i see with WAR so far is the pricing model. it's insulting - especially the bulk payment plans that give you as little as a dollar off per month.

with a giant as prevalent as WoW out there, EA has to be really confident that WAR is going to deliver. if people have the choice to pay $15 a month for either WoW (which they've already invested hundreds of hours in) or WAR, there's absolutely no question that they're going to stick with WoW. but the $15/mo thing is a problem with the entire mmo industry, not any specific game.

can't wait for WAR. the amount of potential it has is staggering. it's just not going to come close to WoW as far as subscribers or influence on popular culture. but mythic/EA aren't idiots. they already know that.

Posted: Aug 21st 2008 4:39AM (Unverified) said

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It will be new, its own, something different. It may take some WoW players, but some WoW players may drop WAR like a bad habit and head back to WoW.

Their focuses are ENTIRELY different. Apples and oranges!!

Posted: Aug 21st 2008 11:23AM Boruk said

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I played in the recent closed beta for CE pre-orders...and cancelled that after 3 days of playing.

Not because the game is not fun, it is. It looks decent too and the UI is done well...

The problems that I didn't like is why I went back to WOW.

1. Combat is amazinly slow. Ever been in a stun-lock situation and just waiting until you can do something else...that is what combat feels like. Hit and Wait.

2. While the UI is nice it looks very unfinished. There is no clean look to it and it looks dirty for a better lack or words.

3. The classes aren't very fun. I went through all of them to level 10. I even did the scenarios and still didn't like it. The only career I did like was the marauder but even questing with that was mundane and not fun.

So while it is a nice MMO, I will not be playing it. I have gone back to my Warlock and will now happily play WOW till it closes down or I die. It has the elements I like to see in a game so there is no need in looking at more anymore.

Posted: Aug 21st 2008 1:26PM (Unverified) said

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MMORPGs take a lot of time to develop, and even more time for the end-users to get used to post-release. So in that, WAR won't be a WoW killer any time soon.

WoW DOES need competition - why? It needs incentives to develop a better product and to stay innovative. But neither Mythic nor any of its fans are expecting WAR to suddenly take over all of WoW's subscribers or fan base. We don't want it to. WAR is supposed to be its own separate entity, and many fans will play both.

Having said that, as a beta tester (Not an elder, through my CE pre-order), I found that WAR has lived up to its expectations as a beta and will look forward to it becoming more polished. There was plenty of content, it was easy to get into the quests, the tomb of knowledge was thorough and a great reference, grinding was made bearable by virtue of the tomb of knowledge, as little things you did would eventually unlock experience and titles. Everything in the capital city has a purpose. Crafting, even though people say was tacked on, actually seemed intuitive and creative.

My only complaints? Well, it's rather shallow of me, but I didn't care too much for the graphics. The graphics don't make the game play and the fun-factor was certainly there, but it was somewhat frustrating. The whole game seemed dark. Not dark as in the mood - that part is pretty cool. The whole world is at war, so it's supposed to be "dark." But dark as in, I can't see a darn thing. Everything has such a low, brown hue.

This was a complaint that came even before beta, so I know it'll get fixed. I also disliked the lack of fluidity in the animation. The Shadow Warrior, for instance, might shoot 4-5 arrows between skills and auto-fire, but the animation shows it plucking its bow once or twice. There was just a large disconnect between using a skill, the motion the toon used, and the action striking the opponent. Again, from what I read, it's been fixed and still being worked on, so I am sure it'll get worked out.

Does anyone know if the current graphics in WAR is the final version, or will animations, looks, and color be adjusted?

Posted: Aug 23rd 2008 1:22PM (Unverified) said

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Zuzug, please read what I said!
I said: "I do understand why that is that way (so it stays fair even for people that join the game later)".
I do know that one can not (easily) make a MMO behave like a single player game. Hence my idea of a variation of the theme with less players/server. However I wished someone would find a way to make a world like this more dynamic, so that players can actually sense that their actions do have some kind of effect on the world arround them. I can think of some ways to achieve this actually (never thought them through to the very end though, as this is not my job). The thing why I brought this up was, that (to the best of my understanding) WAR does actually achieve that to some extent and on a different scale. Yeah the dragon will respawn again, but the big world as a whole is affected by what you are doing in RvR. Not my personal ideal, but at least an improvement over the completely static world of WOW.
Thats what I was saying.

Posted: Aug 23rd 2008 11:05PM (Unverified) said

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I'm switching to WAR from WoW for three main reasons.

1. I find the lore of WAR to be much more appealing. Why? I honestly don't know, but i enjoyed reading it.

2. WAR (to me) is more aesthetically pleasing than WoW. Even in these early stages of the game (compared to WoW's 4+ years) I like the way it looks.

3. I was never hardcore into WoW, even though I played it for two years. When i focused on it I was pretty good, but I hated what seemed like the constant grind. I really enjoyed the PvP aspect. WAR PvP is suppose to be godlike compared to WoW's PvP (which honestly always felt like sort of a sideshow).

I'll start at launch and wade it out through the bugs and patches. Sorry WoW, but you lost my business when you made me kill another fifty mobs, each with a one in a million chance to drop what i needed for a quest. While my one account may seem small in comparison to the millions of WoW subscribers I know that i won't be the only one to quit WoW due to the grind.

Posted: Aug 24th 2008 11:58AM (Unverified) said

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It is a WOW killer for me, meaning that I wont be playing anymore. I don't see Warcraft dying just because another game came out.

As long as my Warhammer server has enough Order to kill, I'll be just fine.

Posted: Aug 25th 2008 10:09AM (Unverified) said

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New games are great, it forces everyone to raise their game - including Blizzard.

I don't think that one game will kill WoW - but what will happen is that WoW will just start to feel old and tired. Even if Blizzard puts in new areas, new instances and new character spells and talents there is only so many years that people will play the game before it starts to feel repetitive and boring.

Also WoW's core mechanics will probably start to feel outdated too - I bet there are lots of decisions that Blizzard really wish that they never made in retrospect but now have to live with. I suspect one is the whole Horde vs. Alliance thing plus PVE and arenas - the faction vs faction thing in WoW has always been pretty half-baked.

And with the announcement that with end-game PVE, they are now concentrating far more on tactics than 'OK for this encounter you really need to have paladins haling' etc. etc. means that making the pala/shaman thing never need not have happened...

So age will kill WoW - and the announcement of WoW 2 - which I would hope that Blizzard is starting to plan now, which since their far from stupid, they probably are...

Posted: Aug 25th 2008 3:08PM (Unverified) said

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***A Note: Sorry for the wall of text, but if you take the time to read it, you won't be disappointed***

"This is something I particularily miss in all MMOs: No matter how many times I kill the evil dragon, the very next time I go by it is still going to be there scaring the very same NPCs that I just had saved.
To me this is a huge problem as it takes away a lot of the motivation for doing something other than for XP for leveling up. It also harms the player- emersion."

I just can't understand people who think like this. How can this bother you? Do you want the dragon in your example to be dead forever so noone else can do the same adventure? You should just play a singleplayer game then.

I can, and I can understand people who "don't get it", but only because I know they aren't thinking outside the box. The point is to actually have your actions have an Impact on the game world. This is something WAR is doing better than anyone to date, and though it's not remotely where I want it to be, it's a start. Of course you'll always have filler quests everyone does, go kill boars, whatever. But just using the specific theoretical dragon and captured princess-

What if there was a quest line for "evil" people where they summoned a mighty dragon, and used its power to topple a keep and capture the lord of it? Meanwhile, "good" players have to band together, kill the dragon, and rescue the lord of it? Meanwhile, the keep has to be rebuilt, so this opens up the quests for lower level characters to assist the construction for it. Once the keep is rebuilt, revenge must be had, so this opens up quests to assault and kill an evil lich (raid style boss). He returns from the grave (being a lich, since his phalactyr wasn't destroyed), and needs vengeance, so he seeks a ritual being performed to summon a mighty dragon. Lower level players gather the resources needed, and once everything is in place, evil characters enter the realm of a dragon, and in a raid- style encounter, enslave him. So the cycle continues.

This from an amateur with no game design experience, so I know it could be greatly improved upon, but the point remains- keep it cyclical, and you have repeatable experiences and never ending content, while allowing people to impact the world at large. Make the world dynamic- don't have attacking an enemy town be an exercise in how long it can be held before guards come in and wipe out the affronting party, allow it to be legitimately taken if the attacking party puts in the appropriate effort!

Furthermore, tie in quests to aid in the effort (poison the water supply to reduce the number of guards present, plant explosives to break underground gates and allow a different entry point, etc), and allow quests to prevent an attack from occuring (recruit countryfolk to bolster guards, build barracades to block off entry points, etc). At that point, when you have dynamic content which shows clear impact from player activity, a dynamic world which reflects the efforts of the playerbase, no two experiences WILL be the same- but they could be, if the players wanted them to and put forth the exact same efforts in the same areas. This theme can be expanded upon in multiple fronts, in everything from taking towns to raid bosses to whatever else you can think of. A truly living, vibrant world CAN be created- though no one has done it yet.

That is the kind of gameplay he is seeking (as am I), and is one that will create memories, and wonderful experiences. It stops being "the 100th time I killed boss XXX" and becomes "that one time I singlehandedly sabotaged town XXX into extinction, and took it with no one the wiser". And this would only be the beginning, this is step 1. Add in player creatable cities with similar quest lines and features added based upon the construction and layout and topography of the city, destructable buildings, natural vegetation growth over time in desolate areas, NPC growth if not contained, the ability to impact spawn rates through player actions, etc etc etc, and you can make a TRULY living world, though such a game is likely decades out, if ever anyone actually does it. But I digress. For now, we are just looking for a START. A sign developers are thinking in that direction. And WAR offers hope of that.

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