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Reader Comments (7)

Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 8:27AM GRT said

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His FAIL quote:

"a lot of MMOs are fairly, I wouldn't say static, but it's the kind of thing where you start, push "attack," and get a cup of coffee, come back and say, "I won."

Do we have to go through all of THIS again?

Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 9:15AM (Unverified) said

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As opposed to every developer simply adopting the auto-attack model and not trying to innovate away from it?

Genius.

Funcom had decent ideas when they tried to inject some life and interesting wrinkles into a traditional attack system that has been a crutch for MMO's of all shape and size. If someone else thinks that they can do it better then by all means they should give it a shot. To dismiss the idea in its entirety simply on face value is ludicrous especially considering how little innovation takes place in the MMO medium and how few titles have actually tried to expand beyond, "I hit attack button. My toon attacks. Mob takes damage. My toon attacks. Mob takes damage. My toon attacks. Mob takes damage. I use a "special". Mob takes damage. My toon attacks. Mob takes damage. My toon attacks. Mob takes damage. The mob dies."

All of "THIS"? As opposed to the industry stamping out WoW clones?
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 3:36PM GRT said

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You two obviously aren't regular Massively readers.

The point isn't what he does or doesn't put into the new game. The point is that there is this "myth" that any game with an auto-attack system takes zero player skill. (You can walk way and make coffee and still win.)

If YOU believe that i have to wonder why you're reading this site since you clearly have never played an MMO.

Furthermore, the most obvious competition to DCUO is currently CoX and CoX doesn't have auto-attack anyway.

So either way you slice it, the guy is spewing nonsense.

Just because he creates great comic books, it doesn't mean he has a clue on how to make an MMO! I can't believe that isn't obvious.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 9:45AM Mr Angry said

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Dude, it's Jim Lee, give him a freaking break and stop combing through his words trying to pick out something that you feel might be very minorly controversial at best.

Games are moving this way now, like it or not. If you want to use a console, it's much better suited to allowing real time combat, rather than a skill based system of queued maneuvers.

Just because AoC didn't get it right, it doesn't mean the whole genre is doomed. Hardly a 'fail', now is it?

Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 3:37PM GRT said

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Learn to use the Reply button.

Then see above.
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Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 4:21PM Mr Angry said

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If being a regular here turns you into an obnoxious prick, I'll post elsewhere. "Reply" or not, I think you know what I am talking about. I was turned onto this site by Brent at Virginworlds, as he said a load of good things about it, and I've had great discussions as a result of contributing in the past, but your initial comment is something I felt didn't accurately reflect the article. I like to think of myself as very much a regular reader, however I choose when to reply to comments and articles, rather than to post stuff just for the sake of it.

This site has no requirements for time spent playing certain games, has no requirement for having a full or exhaustive knowledge of games in general. You just got you panties in a bunch because folks disagreed with what you said. You sensationalized one small aspect of what he said for effect and then claim that some sort of superior knowledge because you played Meridian 59 for a week.

I enjoyed the fact that people outside the games industry are now engaged and developing games. His comments in the more recent article have piqued my interest in something I wouldn't have given a second glance to. To be fair, even with his complete lack of experience and total disregard for cliches in the industry I value his opinion a lot more than yours.

Also Jim Lee is the creative director on this project, he has a very good pedigree in MMO involvement from a player perspective. Read his more recent interview before you dismiss his comments. I imagine he'll be amused that it disintegrated into nerd rage quite so quickly.

Posted: Jul 22nd 2008 7:32PM GRT said

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The point I was trying to make, "Mr Angry" (you call me obnoxious; why pick such a confrontational handle?), or more like, what I was trying to relate to in commenting on a Massively article (NOT the source article), was that we had a really interesting discussion about this "get a cup of coffee" comment (made many times before Jim Lee ever made it, sometimes substituting in 'sandwich' for coffee) on this site (http://www.massively.com/2008/07/10/mmo-mmonkey-comparing-active-attack-and-auto-attack/) not too long ago.

Ergo my "have to go through THIS again." I meant this discussion of the merits of auto-attack vs button-mashing.

What I'm hearing from Jim Lee is much like what I heard from the Wachowski Brothers during the run up to The Matrix Online and we see how well that turned out. Frankly I think it is insulting to the people who have made a career of building good games to imply that you can just jump ship from penciling comic books to directing the development of a video game.

But I was ready to give the guy a chance... but when he rolls out something like that comment... an old and tired comment said (and refuted) many times in the past, and apparently stands by it, it tells me he doesn't know the topic very well.

You might feel his not understanding combat mechanics in MMOs as "minorly controversial" but I see it as a huge red flag. I see further his ignorance of the only running superhero MMO (City of Heroes/Villains) as another red flag.

Hopefully he's just being used as a figurehead and there are some experienced game designers really building the game. Playing MMOs doesn't qualify one to make them, or I'd be expertly qualified, and I think you and I can both agree that I'm probably not.
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