| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (10)

Posted: Jun 23rd 2008 5:53PM Ghen said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
original picture:

I LOVE GAMING DRUNK! Mwahahahaha

Posted: Jun 23rd 2008 6:28PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You have a good point but I dont think your taking the mechanics of aoc pvp into mind. A level 80 can still be killed by enough lvl 20's hacking at him. And if a group of level 20's see a red flagged lvl 80 run by there's a good chance that guy has some awfully nice items and a bit of gold right? Like enough gold to buy you anything you might need for the next 30 or so levels? Thats right hes gonna get pounced instantly. Not to mention guys like me that usually run around with 3 or 4 other people that I have been pvping with for many years.
In the asheron's call days everyone had to go pray at a shrine to be flagged for pvp. So obviously the shrine was camped. And yes you did drop stuff when you died. So what you did was stick your good gear in the bank, equip your usually trash pvp gear, then go flag. So at the worst your out some crap you were going to vendor anyways. What im hoping happens from this is a allot more red on the blue servers :)

Posted: Jun 23rd 2008 8:48PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
this system is used by Lineage2 for ages and it works very good, even with (or maybe because of) the extreme difficulty of acquiring gear (any gear). at the beginning there was a chance to drop items on any death and 1-2 years ago they've changed it to 'red status only' because alot of people quit the game after loosing e.g. a weapon that was worth a few months or even years of grinding. also, to promote PVP, Lineage2 introduced clan war system that allows clans to declare wars between each other and then you don't become more red when killing any member of the opposite clan.

Posted: Jun 23rd 2008 11:26PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You are woefully misinformed, Dishonorable Kills in wow were not earned by killing other players, if you were level 60 and you killed a 20, that was AOK! WoW DK's were earned by killing CIVILIAN NPC's! That is why the system didnt work, it did not discourage ganking, but it did discourage raiding towns, while AoC's pvp discourages actual ganking weaker players, there is a very big difference in that, however there should be exceptions, if the lower level instigates combat, then there should be no penalty for example.

Posted: Jun 24th 2008 12:15AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I never said you earned dishorable kills by killing players but I changed the sentence so its more apparent they were earned by killing the quest givers and guards.

I mention the dishonorable kill system from WoW not because its an exact match to AoC's pvp consequence system but because it highlights what happens when you try to shape PvP with harsh penalties. Developers run the risk of stopping all PvP when they try to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. Its not that I believe you can't put systems in place to prevent griefing just that they might want to start off with something lighter.

Posted: Jun 24th 2008 1:52AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Blizzard messed up with DKs. What they should have done was make those quest givers, vendors, flight masters, etc. any NPC they considered important enough unkillable by the opposing faction. This way the players trying to level wouldn't be griefed. The guards would still be killable, and if a city was occupied by the enemy, then hopefully your side would have the guts to come out and defend. If not, just move on to a new area.

World pvp would have been continuous, and fun, had they done something like that.

Posted: Jun 24th 2008 2:54PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
No the mess up with Blizzard is when they started listening to all the whinners and crybabies complained about the battlegrounds taking to long. So what did they do, change from a Rank/honor to a total honor system only to reward griefing and ganking. OH and now what we have is an afk system as well. I love the idea of putting a mark bounty on the head someone that ganks or griefs. Wish Blizzard would implement a bounty system in warcraft. Maybe the pvp servers would fill back up, and maybe world pvp would increase...

And i might be out of place here but arena should have had arena servers only... the gear has taken the whole game in a different direction. When s3 and now s4 is better than instance gear, no one wants to raid like pre-bc, and yes i do miss the 40 man raids... compaired to the 25 which should have been just 20..

Posted: Jun 24th 2008 12:25PM Brendan Drain said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think the main problem MMOs with world PvP have is giving people a reason to kill each other. They tend to just allow PvP and then implement punishments for killing lower levels and such. Unfortunately, there's no reasonable incentive to kill other players and even those games that implement reward systems seem to get it wrong every time (see EQ2's pvp token system).

EVE Online has natural reasons to PvP. Full looting and serious death penalties may not be everyone's cup of tea but they do lead to natural reasons to PvP. They allow systems like politics and wars to take place.

Posted: Jun 24th 2008 5:29PM Darthus said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
A few things. You can't really compare WoW's system of consequences with AoCs for one major reason. AoC's system of punishment has no actual effect on your character except for making you a juicier target for other players. Being a fugitive actually encourages PvP. I think certain people will enjoy being "red" and seeing how long they can stay alive. They'll be PvP targets and have plenty of fights. It's a PvPers dream in some ways.

The WoW system was merely a grindy penalty. It meant if you got dishonorable kills you had to grind more faction. This sort of system does nothing to encourage PvP. In WoW's system, the punishment decreases enjoyment. In AoC's system, the punishment potentially increases enjoyment for everyone, while still remaining a punishment.

Also, I don't think they've said you'll lose an equipped item. I think that's perhaps how it should be, but it might be an item from your inventory. Then you'll get people filling their inventory with food so that drops instead, but the point remains that we don't know you'll be losing one of your purple epic weapons from this system.

Lastly, I do think you overestimate the fear people will have of PvPing to avoid becoming red. I think they can be pretty clear about what will flag you as a griefer. If you kill anyone more than 5 levels below you. If you spawn camp (within a minute or so of spawning) etc. Revealing that information doesn't really breed exploitation, and I think it makes it relatively easy to not become red if you don't want to.

Posted: Jun 25th 2008 6:47PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
PvP is broken in AoC as it is. Because ratings have no effect in PvP, you could have a bunch of 20s running around killing 80s with no consequence. Those 80s retaliate and get tagged as griefers.

I played UO for a long long time and their fix was the facet system. That's pretty much what AoC has with multiple servers.

You want to get rid of griefers? Put in a res effect that has a 1000% feedback effect on all PvP hostile effects that lasts for 1 minute. Make it go away after you perform a hostile action.

You can't get rid of gankers, that's part of the risk of running around.

You need to make fair leveled PvP worthwhile enough to discourage unfair PvP. eg: the amount of PvP points you get is relative to the amount of damage you did on a reverse logarithmic scale. 100% - 100 pts, 10% = 1pt, 50% = 75pts

In the end though, the people who want to Gank and Grief will do it even if there are penalties.

Featured Stories

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW