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Reader Comments (35)

Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:06PM Nadril said

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I honestly just felt I should clarify some stuff here.

Survivability in mass PvP is huge. I've done some slightly bigger fights (3v6) and when the fights were more mangable (3v3) people survived quite a bit. Throw in the fact that conq's have a battle res, healers get exponentially more effective the more there is around them and you have a good system set up for large scale PvP.

Also, you mention that Assassins "one shot" people constantly, which honestly makes me feel that you didn't get much further than the 20's. I'm level 52 right now in the game (conq) and assassins are not as deadly as they were lower levels. Sure, they can put the hurt on a clothie but even then good cloth players can deal with it.

Gathering is not that bad. Mark the nodes on your map -- because they don't move around. Instead of going on a while hunt for nodes in WoW you know where exactly these are and how long they will take. On an open PvP server if you see someone taking a node you can simply kill them for it :).


Also, in my opinion GvG is so much better than RvR. For one it doesn't let the game developer essentially pick your battles. One of my pet peeves in a PvP MMO is when the developer tells me "you can't attack these guys, they are off limits" and then chances are I can't talk to my enemy as well.

GvG means that the PLAYERS create the "factions" so to speak in the game. It happens in pretty much any major PvP game that has worked that way (good example: Lineage II) and is already starting to form a bit in Age of Conan. GvG gives players more freedom in PvP, and the best part is if you find someone annoying you have the power to try and kill them.

Hell, nothing worse than a loudmouth jackass on your side you can't do shit about. In WAR you'd have to just twidle your fingers, where as in Age of Conan you can slice that little bastards head right off.


And ultimately, to me, its just about the freedom to choose who I want to PvP. Age of Conan has plenty of PvP mechanics in the game (castle sieges, city cieges, border kingdom, world PvP and even a couple 'mini-games') that is more than enough. Sure, the idea of trumping and destroying a large scale city sounds great. In fact, if Age of Conan wasn't out WAR would probably be my second choice. However I just don't know how it will play off in practice.

I would like to know what class in Age of Conan you played, Bowman. There are a few that have difficulties with survivability -- especially at lower level. For example, demontologists and Heralds of Xolti have some serious survivability issues at low levels but get better higher up.
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Posted: Jun 6th 2008 6:03PM (Unverified) said

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WARHAMMER ONLINE : AGE OF RECKONING

I have read a whole lot about WAR. Every official information, as well as all information leaked, that I was able to find.

Now I know a lot about all the different parts of the game. Public Quests, Scenarios, Tome of Knowledge, Keeps, Capital Cities, Classes, Skills, Tactics, Morale Abilities, Masteries, Renown Ranks, Guilds, Tabards and so forth.

Every bit of WARs conception is an improvement to what this kind of games usually offers. Every bit of gamedesign makes a good and fun read. And I know for a fact, that the bits come together really well. In fact, WAR is about to step up soon. You all have seen nothing yet!

I believe, that WAR will be better, than the sum of its' parts. Waaaay better! RvR is the epitome for this. Every tidbit of gamedesign will come together to breathe life into this label. RvR! That's what WAR is about!

Immersion - I missed you so much! Can't wait to welcome you back in my life! WAR is coming!

Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:10PM (Unverified) said

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Bah even if WAR's rvr is fantastic and compelling and creative, i'm still thrown down by the fact that quests work like wow. I'm not saying i hate quests as concept but i hate the fact that WAR uses the same User-Interface as wow, and that is precisely what's gonna turn WAR into yet another clone.
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Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:25PM (Unverified) said

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Despite being one of those "other good for nothing gimps" bowman mentiond, I agree with most of his points.

I am the other end of the spectrum to him, I am a Roleplayer, a Social gamer and an exsplorer. I SUCK at PvP. Warhammer however appeals to me, it has more for me than other games despite its PvP base, and it may even pull me into the PvP and teach me how to play ;)
I admit i am looking forward to skinning a few stunties

Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:27PM (Unverified) said

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Gylfi
I have yet to really see a game thats attempted to change the way quests are worked more than WAR has.

[p.s. The article was good, the points valid, and imo, faily minor considering. thanks for all of the articles]

Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:42PM (Unverified) said

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As far as I'm concerned, the Public Quest system is a big enough change to questing to hook me. I'm of the opinion that the current system of questing works, and if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Now, granted I can't really think of many other ways to develop a questing system outside of the old EQ system where there was no log and you had to hope you were handing the right stuff in to the right guy or you lost all your hard work. Oh, EQ2's quest system is a bit better than WoW's in the way that it updates quests at certain stages.

If anyone can comment on a better way to do questing, I would be glad to read about it and if I agree that it is better I will happily say so. Until then though, the way EA/Mythic is implementing their quest system is more than enough for me.

Posted: Jun 6th 2008 8:48PM (Unverified) said

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Oh, I forgot to add that I agree with a lot of what Bowman has to say with respect to WoW. I'm in the "been there done that" group of people who have seen the end game raiding and gotten bored. I was in a very progressive guild at level 60 and cleared almost everything, then got bored. When TBC hit, I enjoyed the 5 man instances, but I haven't been to a single raid instance yet, nor do I ever want to. I don't even want to step foot into Heroics or even normal 5 mans unless I absolutely have to (and I avoid having to at all costs).

PvP is what I am currently focusing on in WoW, and it is lacking terribly. Despite everyone and their mother decrying "low rank scrubs" for having no skill on the official forums, skill has very little to do with winning in Blizzard's arena system when you come late to the party and don't have the gear yet. Combine that with the fact that PvP is so segregated, and a player base that won't even help you kill the opposing faction on a PvP server (today I actually had someone yell out "don't help" when I got jumped by a rogue) and you have a PvE game that doesn't even try to hide the fact that PvP is the red headed step child.

The PvP in WoW isn't even compelling enough for people to do that Blizzard had to make PvP arena epics extremely easy to get (albeit it takes a long time but you'll get them eventually even if you suck horribly) simply to get people to participate.
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Posted: Jun 6th 2008 11:02PM (Unverified) said

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Michael Zenke,

I know those are the thoughts of others and you are trying to address them in this post, as I listened to the podcast and heard you trying to defend the game to others.

My issue is that you make it seem like these are your own feelings, which is different from what you said on the podcast.

"I'm concerned too, about a number of things. Here, then, is the stuff I'm unsure about when it comes to Warhammer Online..."

"From top to bottom, here are the issues I personally feel players should be concerned about ramping up to this Fall"

By these quotes, it seems like these are your own personal thoughts. If they are, then I have every right to lash out at you for listening and being swayed by those who have no clue what they are talking about. You state multiple times that these are your own feelings, and yet, then say they are those of others. Please decide on one or the other.

You could have easily said that these are concerns that have been mentioned by the MMO fan base or others, but you don't, you say that these are your own personal feelings and thoughts and concerns.

So you can't now change your mind, or you need to edit your article. Otherwise, I think I have every right to lash out at some of the idiotic points made in this post.

I'm especially unsettling that you would call it vaporware when Wrath of the Lich King and Starcraft 2 are more vaporware then Warhammer Online. But I don't see any one calling those vaporware. You really started out bad, and just got worse, in the article. Stop listening to nay-saying fans of other games when covering a certain game. And stop comparing everything to WoW or other MMO's and judge each game on it's own merits.

Posted: Jun 7th 2008 1:51AM (Unverified) said

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Warhammer looks compelling as is. The classes sound fresh and the mechanics sound even better. Build around that, which is essentially the real identity of an MMO, and it will be a winner. Their focus on itemization alone sounds like they really care about the progression of the game. Blizzard seems like they still don't get that aspect.

Posted: Jun 7th 2008 5:36PM (Unverified) said

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I'm not sure if it's encouraging or discouraging that 28 people have commented on this thread. Everyone it seems, even Zenke's three cohorts in the podcast, is skeptical of Warhammer delivering what it promises. If it can come close to delivering everything (and I believe it will) this game will destroy everything else on the market. From Zenke's podcast:

"I originally left DaOC for WoW because WoW had things that DaoC did not, and I think Warhammer has things that WoW does not. I have played WoW since 7 months before it launched. I was in the first friends and family Beta that was only up to 30 on the Alliance side. When I stepped into Azeroth it was a revelation. Like it was like deities on high like angels in a choir like "ahhh" like.. I don't believe in god it was a holy experience the first time I stepped foot into Azeroth... For me personally, I say this in advance about WoW so you can put this into perspective. For me, the kind of player that I am that really likes lore and PvP combat. I'm a person who likes social elements that can't really buy into raid concepts, for me, bar none, I think Warhammer will be a better game than World of Warcraft."

As a consummate mmo player since EQ1, I can say with a great degree of certainty that people will have more fun playing WAR than any other MMO on the market. Don't be so cynical! This game is not another WoW, it's RvR is unlike any game (yes, even DAoC), and gameplay wise it will make AoC look the cousin with down syndrome [That's putting it lightly, btw. Playing that game past 50 with only 4 combat abilities and zero quests will make you homicidal.]

Zenke, thanks for the great coverage and keep up the good work!

Posted: Jun 8th 2008 4:13AM (Unverified) said

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Claiming that WAR is a "omgz WoW-clone" because of similarities in questing system and UI and such is a bit silly, considering that WoW really did very little revolution as far as MMORPGs go - WoW was merely the evolution of pretty much every other MMORPG from EQ1 and the games after that (funny how that never is mentioned though, isn't it? as if Blizzard invented the MMO, lawl). The quest system, the UI, the target-and-autoattack combat with hotkeys for special abilities - all there way before WoW surfaced. And only now people start complaining - usually the people who played nothing else but WoW.

What WoW really did was to create a very easy-to-get-into and newbie-friendly game set in a very well known franchise known as the WarCraft series, with a simple and easy to understand UI, nice artwork that not only looked good but was easy on the computer specs as well, a broad spectrum of different things to do to suit the tastes of many different types of players, an overall polished product etc etc. It was basically designed to appeal to the masses and thus it "opened the gates" to the world of MMOs for alot of people new to the whole concept of MMORPGs. That was WoW's true revolution, if you ask me. And hey, Blizzard did get some stuff right, and I had some great moments in WoW. Those days are past though, at least for my part.

Now what got me hooked on WAR since a year back is, on the most basic level, PVP THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS. This is a huge deal for me. I liked how WoW played, and I enjoyed the thrill of fighting other players, and the bigger the fight the more fun it was. Too bad though that I also enjoyed playing a Prot Warrior (this is in fact the only class, with that certain build, that I liked playing) which in pretty much any case isn't very viable in WoW-PvP is it? And then of course, that PvP in WoW is a tacked on time-killer with no real point except getting 'purplez' at best.

So WAR is my hope now. Looking forward to mass-pvp (or should I say, RvRing by now) which actually affects the world, where true tanks actually have a very important role in PvP, XP from killing players on top of that, collision detection which enables people to physically make barriers out of themselves to shut people out from doorways and to protect fragile players, taunts that actually affects enemy players, capturing keeps and enormous fortresses, the Tome of Knowledge, the interesting crafting, Living Cities/Guilds, Siege warfare and the list goes on and on, I could rant about it forever. So yeah, while WAR might be in the same "format" as WoW as far as gameplay goes (which is totally fine by me), WAR is instead based on a PvP/RvR foundation whereas WoW is not, which makes up for a huge fundamental difference between the games.

And oh, as for the normal questing in WAR, at least they're making so that you can complete quests before you actually pick them up. Say that you enter this area where a bunch of monsters reside, say goblins, and kill 20-25 of them or whatever. Then you find this quest-giver NPC whose quest is to kill 20-25 or so goblins. Since you already did this before talking to the quest-giver, you can claim the reward immediately. At least that's something. And besides, I was totally okay with questing in WoW so I'll be happy nonetheless.

All in all I have great faith in WAR, and if it turns out to be a dissappointment, then I will play no MMO at all for probably a very long time.

/rant off

Posted: Jun 8th 2008 11:02AM (Unverified) said

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'You really started out bad, and just got worse, in the article. Stop listening to nay-saying fans of other games when covering a certain game. And stop comparing everything to WoW or other MMO's and judge each game on it's own merits'
-ScytheNoire

Yeah, those pesky haters, always trying to drag down a very good game. People who don't love absolutely everything about a given game should not even post about it.

Wait a minute, where did we have this exact conversation before again? Did you get rid of your HGL figurines yet? :P

Posted: Jun 8th 2008 12:36PM (Unverified) said

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This is not a comment, but more of a question I would like to ask you, Michael Zenke. I know some others here have asked you not to compare to other MMOs, but lets be honest, many of us are looking for something new, something to replace WoW. I haven't read all of your articles yet, so you may have answered this, but how is the actual game play? How does the UI, the feel of the game, compare to WoW? Watching a lot of the gameplay videos, it looks a lot like it, but what I want to know is, is the character control as fluid and easy as WoW? When I log into WAR I kind of want it to feel like I am playing WoW BUT with all these new game mechanics (like ToK, RvR, etc.). Posters have mentioned it before, WoW was the evolution of MMOs. I really want WAR to be the next phase in that evolution. I want it to be WoW but better.

Posted: Jun 8th 2008 9:09PM (Unverified) said

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He mentioned it in his podcast or you can read the transcription my friend did that I borrowed and put in my comment (#30).
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Posted: Jun 10th 2008 7:46PM (Unverified) said

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I think Zenke has given good negatives at this time. The game has been pushed back and still needs a lot of work. There is not a lot of time to add more content(unless it is pushed back). WOTLK will kill sales if it releases late. Some people already judge it as a WOW clone and its not done and is very different.

PVE endgame isnt a big issue. No MMO has had endgame ready at launch. Not one of them have. They will have some time to get it finished(but not too much). Seriously, if these are the main issues right now then I am in heaven. This game will kick butt.

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