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Reader Comments (10)

Posted: May 26th 2008 8:34PM (Unverified) said

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Thoughtful, I love this article. Like google search, "good place" isn't same for everyone. Crowded place isn't always where the one want to go. oh Does SL search already has "PageRank"?

Posted: May 26th 2008 9:49PM (Unverified) said

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Isn't the ultimate purpose of these numbers to somehow indicate to everyone where the "best" places to go might be? If so, then I take issue with the notion of any system that bases it on time spent at a location - as in, the more minutes someone spends at a location, the better.

In my case, I've tried really hard to engineer my store (Electric Pixels at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caso%20Milo/192/114/134/) to be easy to use. No hidden rooms, everything is out in the open, no spiral staircases to get lost, stuck or fall off of, etc. In theory, my customers stay for fewer minutes at my store because items are easier to find than in other shops with confusing layouts. There are some places you may benefit by lingering around, but others you might not. Getting lost in a bad build is certainly not a way to indicate one of the "best" places. Many times I have observed customers arriving at my shop, finding and purchasing items, and then TPing out somewhere - all in less than five minutes.

So what is the right way to indicate "best"? Well, I have no freakin' idea! Any algorithm I envision would easily be gamed. Perhaps the whole idea should be scrapped entirely.

-- ArminasX

Posted: May 27th 2008 3:16AM (Unverified) said

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but then how would search result be sorted in a way that would increase the odds of putting near the beggining of the list the place the user is looking for?
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Posted: May 27th 2008 6:53AM (Unverified) said

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Several comments on dwell:

Can a system even be come up with that can not be gamed by bots? Maybe no movement for a long time .... no, you could be sitting, standing around, or just dancing (the animation does not change your actual position).

The place I am an officer at is right next door to a similar place. We get a *lot* of new faces tping to our tp point, then running to the sign for the other place and off of our plot. Obviously they found us on search but thought the other place was us. Since most of the time people do not tp to someplace other than their destination, maybe where they tped to should be part of the equation?

Why so complex a dwell algorithm and not fully answering the questions about it? (like how many points) When our area was getting established we tried reverse-engineering the algorithm (since we could say if a day was busier or not than the prior one) .... and eventually threw up our hands and decided it was a random number that had nothing to do with their algorithm. Like right now for instance: the dwell on the next plot is 3 times ours but we are usually past them and we have roughly the same amount of traffic.

Should things that cause a fluctuating dip (like a club open a few days a week) or a spike be taken into consideration? Of course, part of the point of huge parties is to introduce the area to people who may not know about it.

Posted: May 27th 2008 6:54AM (Unverified) said

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Arminsax- yes, I am for scrapping it entirely too. It causes too much angst for various reasons. Can always be easily gamed. People spend more time worrying about dwell than actually concentrating on having a good time and building second life. I have even found myself debating if I should leave the parcel I am an officer at to go elsewhere because it would indicate a dip in traffic. Since I am a mentor and greet new residents SL is only hurting itself by giving me a dis-incentive to go help them.

Posted: May 27th 2008 7:17AM (Unverified) said

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(IMHO) The community should be empowered with the tools to more easily gather their own statistics and abstract them into their own indicators.

We want APIs. We want full and fine-grained control over *everything* :)
Expose statistical data for all simulators through some web-enabled thingy like the search proxy, and let us harvest it and sort it out on our own. It could be a business opportunity!

Why not simply keep and expose a tally of who was there and how much time they spent, and what they actually did?
How many lines or bytes of text were spoken, how much time were they using voice, building something, scripting, being animated, playing streamed audio or video, whatever.

The more low-level stats we can have, the more high-level indicators *we* can define.

If you have a single metric, any metric, it will be an attractor that the community will unilaterally "game", optimize for, rather than the real goals of Second Life which should be about enabling creative diversity.

Different people will have a different view of what constitutes fun content. The Dwell or Traffic indicators are making SL all about how many avatars can be crammed into a black boxy club.
Some of us enjoy places with more detailed artwork or more complex scripted behavior rather than be stuffed into a crowd of "w00ts" and "HowLz" ;)

In the age of Web 2.0, it seems clear to me that Second Life content should be in a *folksonomy*. It should be collaboratively organized and filtered and ranked into all kinds of tags and categories BY the community and FOR the community.

Linden should position itself as the ENABLER of the community's EMERGENT and FREEFORM behavior rather than defining one metric for everyone! Pretty please? :)

Posted: May 27th 2008 11:20AM (Unverified) said

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I have done some experiments and even the numbers from 'users who know the dwell system best' are way off. A single avatar sitting on a parcel for 24 hours continuously will generate about about 1440 points. It appears that the current 'traffic' system is a simple, one point per minute, per avatar.

Posted: May 27th 2008 11:37AM (Unverified) said

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Not according to Linden Lab -- if it has changed, they apparently do not know it. This algorithm is as they detailed it for us.

Also, we've done tests of our own that do not bear out the 1,440 figure (also referred to as the 1:1:1 algorithm).
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Posted: May 27th 2008 2:42PM (Unverified) said

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I wonder if it works differently in different sims then. I have a model in my jewelry store and show about 1400 to 1500 each day on a regular basis. With her not there the number is usually under 100.

I have run the tests several times during the 18 months and it has always come out close to the 1:1:1 in my home sim.

Posted: May 27th 2008 8:07PM (Unverified) said

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Maybe it is massively buggy :)

We asked Linden Lab about it, and they were adamant that it was not 1:1:1, but was as we described here.
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