| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (35)

Posted: May 13th 2008 7:08PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
ok, well sorry, but you guys do use a lot of outside info, not that it's bad, I suppose it's not easy to get the big new scoop all the time.

Posted: May 13th 2008 7:11PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Oh, no worries. I just wanted to make our position clear. All news is news, whether it's internally generated or reposted from elsewhere (everyone riffs on news from each other anyway).

Thanks for your kind words. :)
Reply

Posted: May 13th 2008 9:43PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think the exponential leveling curve is entirely logical. When you're just getting into a game, working for days to gain a new ability sucks. Once you've gained some experience and have found you like it, it's not too bad.

Is the level 80 cap some attempt to be unique? Either make it the standard 50, or put it at 100. I don't see any reason to change the level cap from any other MMO except to try to stand out in a skin deep way.

Posted: May 13th 2008 9:45PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Couldn't you achieve the same effect by introducing a few key abilities in a tutorial and then doling them out at regularly spaced levels thereafter?

I see what you're saying... but it's not even exponential in the case of WoW or AoC. They just choose an arbitrary cut-off and make the next set of levels take twice as long to achieve. For many players, I suspect it feels jarring rather than logical.
Reply

Posted: May 13th 2008 10:01PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I see what you're getting at Cameron. From D&D to modern MMOs I'm too far in the box to really think any other way when it comes to something as mundane as leveling. I only see two methods, levels or skill sets. You're right though, there probably are better solutions. I don't care for how most MMOs are just taking what someone else does and change what everyone else does instead of trying something unique. Albeit inescapable, it'd be nice if more companies tried to broaden their horizons.

Haven't looked into AoC much since I'm a big PvP fan and have been hoping Warhammer will be good. I like games that are based on PvP (like my old favorite DAoC) rather than be a game with a little PvP thrown in.
Reply

Posted: May 13th 2008 10:05PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Yeah, it would be nice to see more companies branch out. It's a sticky wicket. Branch out too much, and your game is unfamiliar -- people don't like it enough to bring in the sales you need to cover your costs. Taking a risk is risky.

But if you don't branch out a little, people call your game a clone and criticize you for not doing anything special. Companies that manage to hit the sweet spot of innovating just enough that the old feels new are the ones that turn out to be fairly successful.
Reply

Posted: May 14th 2008 4:17AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Yup. Another game I played a good amount was EvE, and it's definitely different than mainstream MMOs. But as you said, it scares people away. Tried getting a couple friends into it and they couldn't get past the tutorial. It's a lot to take in at once. When I jump onto most MMOs I already know what I'm doing pretty much and the familiarity is somewhat comforting.

This happens with all games though. So many FPSs come out and get way more attention than a genius game such as Dreamfall (or at least in my opinion). I'm not sure how a big-budget MMO could approach making a dramatic change and still afford to keep it online. EvE is the only successful example I can think of.

Making a game like WoW or Halo is too attractive as the success is obvious. EvE has around 250k players last I remember, WoW 9 million. The same could be said for Halo and Dreamfall. I suppose it's not the problem of the companies at all, but what consumers demand. Maybe open source will take off in the gaming community and make things like this more common. Just remembered that Microsoft recently released the XNA kit, I suppose that's a good first step to variety.
Reply

Posted: May 13th 2008 11:24PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The way they are structuring this game makes me think that they don't have higher level content and the game will become some sort of grind. It almost seems like making leveling slow is a way to keep people away from end game content until they get the time to add it, assuming they will add content via subscription rather than expansions. Reminds me of WoW and how it lacked content at 60 when the game came out. The whole unfinished game thing we see constantly in MMO's.

I don't see AoC as being greatly successful, but it should be a fun distraction for a little while. Nothing really good to play until WAR comes out, and until then, it's either the same-old or AoC's boob's and blood.

Posted: May 14th 2008 4:26AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The 250 hours is what Funcom would *like* it to take to level. I hear that late on in closed beta, certain classes were being levelled in @60 hours. (Take that with a pinch of salt though - experienced testers and it IS beta).

So expect nerfs and/or players of certain classes QQing.

Posted: May 14th 2008 3:23PM mietha said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
It means it's not much of a game. EQ is still king because there is always some way to advance. Levels, aa, leadership xp, raid xp, etc. Going for new gear, for me, is only useful to make gaining xp easier. One of the main reasons I hate WoW. There basically is no end-game. One can NEVER claim that of EQ. They can claim it's not very good, and that's certainly debatable, but it is, without a doubt, there. On the other hand, knowing that I can hit cap in AoC without losing that much play time from EQ is tempting. I'm really just waiting to see if there's a last minute content nerf for the US release.

Posted: May 15th 2008 12:43PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I enjoyed reading your article.

The quote really makes perfect sense to me:

"as much fun as a little PvP on the side or a little raiding can be, the game is really about you and your character: getting stronger, gaining new skills, finding new equipment, seeing new things."

Too bad there are not many MMOs that are made by that rule

Posted: May 15th 2008 5:03PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Cam,

Thought your article was insightful and thought-provoking. As someone who is usually focused on the "race", if I really want to be honest with myself, it's the levelling times--the journey if you will--that I've enjoyed most in over 10 years of MMO gaming.

Good read, at least gets you thinking, don't listen to this ugly troll "Bob" lol

Posted: May 19th 2008 2:22AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Something I think you overlooked in your mention of Everquest and it's reputation for people quitting before they reached max level, is the level of difficulty that the game had originally. Sony made the game easier and easier with each expansion to the the point where anyone could reach max level in no time at all, forgetting that the difficulty level of the game is what attracted most of it's core supporters.

I've done beta testing for EQ, EQ2, DAoC, WoW and while they all had something to offer, None of the games or expansions have ever been able to match the what Everquest was when it started. Sure, it was probably too hard for the average player, but at the same time, that was what made it worth playing.
Today it's about attracting the maximum amount of players. Back then it was about creating something new and different that challanged it's players beyond anything that had ever been tried.

At the time, I hated it, I cussed it and pulled my hair out. Now, I miss that.

Posted: May 20th 2008 4:43PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
This isn't meant as a put down (of course it will be taken as one because it's the internet) but I find it sad that the "average" player focuses on leveling, PvP and getting "stuff" rather than RP and enjoying the content of the game. Think how boring the Lord of the Rings story would be if it was one chapter long and described all the monsters Frodo killed on his way to Mount Doom and all the cool stuff he got on the road to level 80.

In the old days (back when it was up-hill to school both ways), the whole point of playing a game was to take a journey, not race as fast as you can to the destination, but I'm not surprised given this post-MTV, ADD, no attention span, instant-gratification-now-or-I-quit generation.

If more players role-played and tried to tell stories and interacted in character with other players they might discover the entire evolution of these games and how much fun it can be to act the way the character (not player) would in a situation. I'm sort of amazed that people will work their tedious, 9-5 job to rush home and kill rats in a meadow until bedtime.

There will never be an interesting "end game" for any MMORPG when it's all about hitting the bar (grinding) to get another food pellet (gear) or to get a new power, or spell or ability. It's always about "getting" stuff.

Posted: May 26th 2008 4:50PM aristokrat said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Ah, good old Asheron's Call. I miss that game.

Why does there need to be a level cap at all? It could eventually be kind of like Halo 3's ranks, where it doesn't really mean anything (but you could give tiny skill improvements occasionally), but people could then continue growing. Like make a level 200 3% better than a level 100, so its not a total waste but there's still somewhere to go. Have the end-game start around 100, but let people who just crave leveling keep doing it.

Featured Stories

Coming soon
Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW