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Reader Comments (12)

Posted: May 12th 2008 5:34PM (Unverified) said

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I love your concept of new technology (long range webs, etc.) being introduced to counter the issue. It will do more for long term balance than nerfing existing equipment and also fits the theme of the EVE universe much more closely. Using such a plan might also allow developers to mitigate a lot of the disenfranchisement that comes along with being stripped of power. I wish all MMOs would consider this their first option.

Posted: May 12th 2008 9:51PM Wgraves said

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Maybe a webifier version of the interdictor bubble? but like probes make them not deployable within range of the other.

Posted: May 12th 2008 11:10PM (Unverified) said

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the ishtar is not a heavy tanker i mean 5 low slots for a tank what type of tank is viable with that.

even the demios isnt considered a tanking ship mainly using passive setup and try and outdamage the target befor you go down. Now the demios has 6 slots for a tank.

the ishtar is in noway a heavy tankable ship. What it is though is its versitile with the mid slots and the 2 high slots not dedicated turrets slots.

Also ur example of using those implants cost asmuch as 10 battleships so its inline with risk vs reward ratio just fine to me. If anything should be done is a adition of a Ewar rig or something to affect webbing range.

most people that complain about nanos r getting ganked bye a outnumbering force and at that point it doesnt matter what the enemy is in ur still gonna die so stop complaining because u dont wanna spend some money and time trying to learn how to fly a nano ship.

Posted: May 13th 2008 12:34PM Brendan Drain said

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Actually, I think you'll find that the Ishtar and Deimos can tank about as much damage as a tier 1 battleship. The Ishtar's 5 mids lets it run enough cap gear to sustain a dual medium repairer setup. In fact, I used to use it to tank over 1500 DPS from thermal and kinetic when I did Gallente COSMOS missions.

When it comes to PvP, it's another story. The issue with the Ishtar's tank in PvP is that with only 5 low slots and not much powergrid, it doesn't really have room for a plate. In PvP, an armour tank without enough hitpoints will crumble very quickly under heavy fire without giving any time to react.

Typical effective gang pvp setups for the ishtar do (and should) involve alternatives to standard tanking such as mwding out of range of the enemy once you've dropped your drones on them. The problem with the current nano ishtar isn't that it can drop drones on you and fly away, it's that it can't be caught by conventional means. Rapiers, huginns and interceptors can't do much to stop a nano ishtar if the pilot's rigged and has a head full of expensive implants.


Without a snake set, the nano ship of choice is the Vagabond or Stabber, of course. A well setup Vagabond can reach speeds close to or in excess of interceptor speeds without using any of the more expensive implants and gear. Can you honestly say to me that training for a vagabond should make you effectively invulnerable?

And to address your last point, not only should people not be forced to use nano setups but a good nano fit isn't even a viable counter to another good nano fit. Two nano-fit vagabonds will whizz around warp disrupting each other and missing each other with turrets for a while before one decides he's bored, mwds out of warp disruptor range and warps off.

Everyone has an opinion on the issue and this is mine. Some people love nano ships, some people hate them, but EVERYONE has an opinion on it :D.
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Posted: May 13th 2008 8:13AM (Unverified) said

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I'm unclear why EvE and other MMOs don't try to factor in the size/weight of the ship in question when considering speed and speed buffs. For instance, in PotBS, I was jumped by two large ships of the line - level 50 players using galleons with 48 guns each - while I was in a medium but sturdy ship (level 24). When I was engaged, there was a good 600 yards between us, and I thought, no problem, I have the wind behind me, I can out sail this guy.

Imagine my surprise when his galleon lept forward and suddenly was running along side me. Two broadsides later and I was sunk. This in no way should have been the case, mirroring real-life physics (allow me to gripe here). Similarly, in EvE and other space battle sims, one might expect a cruiser or battleship to have such mass that it would require a good deal of power to change trajectory.

This is not to say that MMOs should kill themselves over physics calculations, but certainly there is justification to "nerf" the big ships and allow the intent of the game (small fast ships and big slow ships) to prevail.

Posted: May 14th 2008 12:02AM (Unverified) said

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actualy the physics in eve work fairly well big heavy ships running a micro warp drive which raise your mass makes it harder to turn.

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Posted: May 13th 2008 9:08AM Wgraves said

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@ side
Not everyone wants to fly a nano ship, once that becomes a requirement for successful PvP the there IS an imbalance that needs to be addressed.

Posted: May 13th 2008 12:19PM Brendan Drain said

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Exactly :).
Allowing one ship or setup to be better than most others means people will gravitate toward using it. That sets the barrier to successful PvP very high for a lot of players, the equivalent of saying "Just train for a Vagabond".
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Posted: May 13th 2008 2:18PM (Unverified) said

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Nano ships aren't required for successful pvp. If you say "Just train 20m pvp sp, buy the best ship, the best rigs, and the best implants..." you're setting the bar for "success" pretty high, regardless of what the 'OP' FOTM is that you recommend. Well-fit nano gangs represent billions of ISK, of course they can be annoying.

A short article on viable counter-tactics:
http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=3_9&page=1

All that said, I do agree that speed should be brought back into line -- speed tanking should be a viable option for vagabonds and a few others, but it shouldn't dwarf armor and shields in effectiveness to the point where every ship fit is a question of "how fast can i go?" I feel that rigs are really what pushed this craze over the top, and it'll be interesting to see how CCP addresses the issue.

Posted: May 19th 2008 7:22AM (Unverified) said

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I've actually seen a valid counter measure to nano ships work. It was a gang of rapiers and a couple of dps ships. They kept about 30 km apart from each other and staggered the webs, so that as the nano vagas coasted out of one web range, it was into another.

I agree though, there is no way a HAC should be able to outpace your average inty - it makes being a beginner impossible. The first thing you are ever any use at in propper pvp is as a tackler. These nano gangs make beginner PVP start at a much higher SP level and ruin the game for newer players.

Posted: May 19th 2008 7:25AM Brendan Drain said

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That is genius! But you have to agree that it's an incredibly convoluted and difficult-to-execute way to stop a vagabond. You shouldn't need rapiers spaced 30km apart along the length of a vagabond's trajectory to stop it, should you?
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Posted: Jul 27th 2008 11:55PM (Unverified) said

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Large ships represent the greatest leap in technology known to the EVE universe and any aliens receiving our radio waves. Kidding on the last part but seriously these ships are impossible.

They speed up, slow down, change trajectory, and break down too easily.

What modules for large ships could be is larger, so as to require a larger ship to hold; and a larger ship requires a larger module to perform the functions that the larger ship requires. As you can see, current modules that give a full bonus to a large ship are a few lightyears jump in technology. So tiny modules, as compared to the size of the ship being described here, should have a diminished effect. That, or add a ton of new large-ship modules to the already-bloated list of modules.

In return for your tons of money put into a larger ship you get more HP, less agility yet better passive abilities and resistances, to withstand multiple opponents.

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