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Reader Comments (7)

Posted: May 1st 2008 9:15PM (Unverified) said

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If someone is complaining that it's just killing monsters that will back in five minutes time, then something is wrong with their suspension of disbelief. When we read a book, we don't realize that we're just holding a sheaf of paper in our hand and we're staring at it for hours on end.

In order to enjoy the activity, you have to put your imagination to work. This is why quest text and NPC interaction is important. It's supposed to pull you into the world and give you a reason for doing what you're doing. Sure, it starts out small, but it's supposed to become "EPIC" at some point in the story.

If we removed all the quest text from an MMO, just removed every scrap of quest text and replaced it with simple instructions on how to complete each quest, a lot fewer people would play the game.

"EPIC" is in your mind. The mechanics don't matter, it's what you THINK that matters. So having a reason for doing things is important.

This is one of the principal failings of EVE, and the reason why I don't play it. A lot of people don't play EVE. Presumably, the 10 million people playing another MMO are also not playing EVE.

EVE has its strong points, but "EPIC" is not one of them.
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Posted: May 1st 2008 11:15PM (Unverified) said

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[warning: hardcore eve follower speaking, rampant fanboism may occur past this point.]

Well, like most games, EVE's nature depends on how you play it. the 0.0 wars are epic in scale - tens of thousands of players fighting eachother in massive fleet battles of a scale not found in any other game. Downing a titan is far more epic than any raid boss because there's people behind it - and it won't respawn. Of course, this is pretending the lagmonster doesn't live under the bed - it's ruined many an epic moment. Still, even small gang warfare seem epic because of the stakes. The story too - even player made, the backstory of goons and bob, the propaganda and talk - there's real hatred between some of the people there.
No matter how gripping the text quest is, playing in a real story against real people's just more thrilling, for me at least.
It's just nullsec's not for everyone, and mining and mission running - most of the game for the average player - decidedly unepic.

On a side note, I think that people have really different definitions of epic - to pull out a cliche of MMOs, it follows along bartles suits. The epic item rewards talking about in the article might drive a diamond crazy, but not do much for a club.
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Posted: May 1st 2008 11:55PM Scopique said

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There's "epic in scale", as randomLurker mentioned, and then there's "epic in story", which I think is the point of the article.

Nothing beats EVE's fleet battles in scale; watching scores of ships tactically beating the crap out of one another wins, hands down, over any raid experience. But that's a point in time. Although you may end up in several fleet battles in the course of your time in EVE, there's nothing that separates them from one another except the stakes, and those are personal...what does victory (or loss) mean to you?

On the other hand, an epic storyline is something that cannot be accomplished in modern MMOs. In order to be epic, per the dictionary description, the experience has to center around the individual...and has to include a task that only the individual can accomplish. Modern MMOs are constructed so that EVERYONE has the same opportunities, so there can never BE on hero to complete the epic.
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Posted: May 2nd 2008 2:40PM (Unverified) said

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I disagree with your assertion that an epic storyline can not be accomplished in modern MMO's. Obviously an MMO can not practically be centered around every individual player. But they can be thematically centered around each player by customizing the storyline in such a way that each player feels that their decisions are significant.

Like I said above, it all lies in the suspension of disbelief. A storyline can feel epic even if you're not the main character. All that is required is the sense of being part of great and momentous events.
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Posted: May 2nd 2008 8:03AM Ravious said

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Well I disagree with Scopique. Guild Wars, which I do agree may not be a standard MMO, and the dev's prefer it not to be lumped in with MMOs, is still an MMO, has quite a few epic storylines. However, Lord of the Rings Online - an MMO in the traditionalist sense - does have an epic storyline, where the character is the one defeating The Enemy in a pretty good story.

I just think that the kind of epic GW and LOTRO have were not on the white board for WoW and EVE, which is not a bad thing. Different MMOs for different tastes.
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Posted: May 2nd 2008 8:38AM (Unverified) said

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You can not have a epic story when you are one hero in a sea of a million heroes. This is where the single player RPG shines. If developers can fins away to add a single player (instance world) where you become the hero in parallel with the MMO world we know today. That would be EPIC .. IMO.
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Posted: Jun 20th 2008 1:01AM (Unverified) said

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What I found to be epic was Sid Meier's Pirates! I loved the fight scenes behind the tavern. When you got to a certain point in the fight, I think you kicked them through the railing and onto the lower floor; and then you follow them down with a flip! Now if they hit you back to a point, you stumble back up the stairs. These little pre-defined moments were enough to keep me sucked in. I know WoW is not capable of doing this. I'm speaking in general.

Now what might work as an example of something epic in an MMORPG would be where players sign up for defense of a stronghold, and whenever an attack is appropriate and enemies are traveling to attack, the player must go to defend. There, they go to an instanced level with the other players. However, to get more players into the defense and to reduce lag, you split the stronghold into parts, each with their own instance. Now in the normal game world, I'm thinking WoW here, a stronghold might be pretty small. In this case, it is but a symbol for the stronghold. In the instance, it's massive. This allows you to split it up into multiple sections and make it feel epic. I don't know exactly how a stronghold siege would work. I'm just saying something that would help in adding epic moments.

To make things interesting, you have a bunch of players inside of the keep. When other players die, let any of these players go out to continue the fight. They may also be used in performing other types of attacks against the enemy if the opportunity arises. These instances will help the defense a lot.

If everything was epic, it'd all be mundane, which is why these stronghold sieges should not be rinse and repeat like the other content; such as the normal stronghold sieges I hear WoW will have.

That doesn't mean I'm fine with respawning creatures every 5 minutes in the same location of the wax museum. If everything is handed to you, it'd all be mundane. Keep in mind, I speak for myself.

Oh I hope you shoot up rocks while you're doing other computer stuff. That sh**'s boring. Clearly CCP, in that regard, did not do well in establishing corporate capitalism. They got manufacturing down, but not mining. That doesn't make any sense. You're an uncommon type of pilot and you mine asteroids with your hulking spaceship that should instead be out destroying other ships; as well as replacing your ship, using the production of the normal everyday folk who work mining asteroids :D. Now that makes the player special.
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