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Reader Comments (12)

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 12:17PM (Unverified) said

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It's Freezing Trap, not Frost Trap.

Noob.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 12:21PM (Unverified) said

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I don't play hunters. I just kill them.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 6:30PM (Unverified) said

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LOL =)
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Posted: Apr 14th 2008 12:39PM (Unverified) said

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I'd love to see a whole set of "LTP" quests. It would be great to see some quests about grouping and other game mechanics as well. I've run into a lot of players that have missed some significant part of the game, maybe they solo'ed to 70, maybe they only grouped, maybe they never did any pvp, whatever. Those people often wind up missing out out of many of the wide variety of aspects of the game and it usually presents itself in awkward situations. Most of the time its in crowd control. I've seen hunters who cant trap, locks who cant seduce (banish is an easier to manage mechanic and I havent run into anyone who has a real hard time with it), or mages who cant sheep. And thats just a small example. Are you putting up the right debuffs for the group composition? All these things make for smoother grouping and better solo play plus they give you a better sense of what your character can do.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 12:24PM (Unverified) said

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I'd argue that at the point you noticed she didn't know how to use Freezing Trap properly, you could have shown her and been the next step in this whole 'passing of knowledge' mechanic. Hopefully that's what you did.

I'd probably be just like that noob you picked up if I didn't have my brother teaching me how to play a Mage as if I signed up for a seminar. Every night isn't just running instances and killing things, it's like a training session for a tech job. I'm okay with that, though. Whatever he doesn't teach me, I've learned through trial and error.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 12:34PM vicryixiv said

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Some basic tutorials might be in line, but there is already a game mechanic in place to teach people how to play. Dungeons.

The problem is that after 3 years, fewer and fewer people are running legitimate 5 man instances as they level up. There is almost always a high level friend (or a paid escort) bombing through the instance while the new player or alt (who probably doesnt really know the class well yet) pick up the loot.

I had the fortune of running with a pack of 5 friends on 2 seperate alts and the experience (not xp) i gained from doing Zul'Farak, Uldaman, Sunken Temple, and BRD really improved my understanding of how my alts played out.

You cant do easy leveling from 1-70 as a shadow priest and then expect to go into kara for some healing. It just isnt going to work.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 1:48PM (Unverified) said

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Yes, we did try to teach her, but ultimately it was faster to just adapt our strategy. (Kara isn't really the place to be learning to play)

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 5:50PM (Unverified) said

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To an extent, this already exists for hunters in WoW.

I've joked with friends that the Pre-BC hunter epic bow/staff quest series should be required to level past 60. The line teaches a bunch of advanced skills that come in very useful later on.

It's just that no one sees it anymore as the starter drops in Molten Core, and it doesn't cover post-BC topics like repeat trap timing or weaving steady shots.

While it does have its flaws (e.g. no pets), it's a great attempt at the basic idea of teaching advanced tactics and learning-while-doing, getting an amazing reward for the effort, and not at all feeling like a tutorial.

Updating the quest to the modern state of the post-level-62 class and getting the starter out of MC would make for a great rite of passage.

Posted: Apr 14th 2008 11:47PM (Unverified) said

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I think that both the hunter and priest "epic weapon" chains were awesome. As much as it would be blatantly ripping off certain other games and their epic quests, I really wish WoW would do something similar. Getting epic loot of bosses is just fine, but it's kind of cool to do a massive quest that you can solo most of for a hard-earned, ridiculously awesome weapon.

I also want more fun clicky items, but that's a whol different topic.

Posted: Apr 16th 2008 12:25AM (Unverified) said

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You bring up a good point with the tutorials, however there are several counterarguments that I would like to bring up.

Firstly: The amount of extra work that would need to be put in to complete a full tutorial for every ability for every class would be a monumental effort. Do you want that new content?

Secondly: Using your example of the hunter with freezing trap, if you had two hunters in the raid. One in full purples, but can’t trap, and the other in blues and greens, but can chain trap effectively, which one would you be more inclined to take back next week if you had room for only one?
Being able to play your class is a badge of honour (just like what you suggested for completing the quests), but it’s forged through trial and blood. I personally believe that it’s worth more as it is, then what it would be worth with a quest system.

My main character is a Night Elf, Hunter. I learnt how to trap the slow way, and I worked very hard to get as good as I possibly could be. One particular event in Shattered Halls, where I managed to save a party wipe through good trapping, kiting and pet control, earned me the title of hunter leader in my guild. Since I was given the title, the hunters in my guild have improved their trapping immensely.
The point of this story is that sometimes you need someone who is doing better then you to show you what you can achieve. If everyone had trapping training through a tutorial, then the exceptional people would be diminished.

I hope I have brought up several points for people to think about.

Posted: Apr 16th 2008 8:09AM (Unverified) said

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I completely agree that new skills and other vital mechanics should be taught via quests. I'm not a big fan of tutorials in games as they destroy the immersion.

Actually Blizzard has started to do this with the blood elf racial abilities in the BC expansion. You are given a quest that requires you to use your mana draining skills. They really should go back and do a pass on all classes and ensure that starting players have quests for those special abilities.

Where Blizzard drops the ball is teaching players how to use their core class abilities in groups and in raids. It is just assumed that other players will teach you or that you will learn yourself. Given the casual/solo friendly nature of WoW many players never learn how to really play their class as they sail from level 1 to 70. Good game design prepares players for the challenges ahead. Bad game design leaves players twisting in the wind.

I wrote an article about this on my website which discusses this the issue in greater detail:

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=108

Scott, I agree that the pre-BC hunter epic quest was amazing was a mini-hunter boot camp for ensuring that hunters at level 60 had those core abilities. Sadly, given the disposable nature of WoW content that quest is now obselete. At least one great thing about EverQuest was that the content didn't go obselete like WoW and I believe that's due to the community building fact of having non-instanced content.

Posted: Apr 30th 2008 5:57PM (Unverified) said

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When I was bringing up my main, after training I'd go out and kill something I was familiar with to see what the new skill/cast whatever was like and how it fit into what I had. Call me crazy!

But then I got to 70 and was sort of stuck. I started a new mage and discovered a lot of stuff I missed because I was too new to understand what it was all about at the beginning. People thought I was crazy to create a "duplicate" of my main's class, but she taught me (and my main) a lot.

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