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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 3:13AM (Unverified) said

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Brilliant. The intro, and the analysis. I'm quite interested to see what Linden Lab's response will be, if anything.

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 5:45AM (Unverified) said

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is Second Life Grid now the Linden State?

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 7:04AM (Unverified) said

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Love the intro, and looking forward to your followup when you hear back from LL.

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 7:31AM (Unverified) said

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Great way to wake up on a Monday morning:) Good stuff and keep it coming. Glad someones on our side

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 8:41AM (Unverified) said

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but are click through eula's actually legal contracts in the United States of America? hmm.. ever tested in a court of law? didn't they hold the accounts hostage before the change anyway? isn't this the American way now? To ignore the law and imply that whatever they 'say' in a eula is the law?

as much as possible i, for one, will no longer be sending money to linden lab. fortunately my business model allows me to reduce expenditures to them a great deal :)

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 8:56AM (Unverified) said

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Yes, click-through EULA's have been tested in US courts this century. Some have been upheld (in whole or in part) and some have been overturned (in whole or in part).
Reply

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 9:43AM (Unverified) said

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Tateru, this tension between nominative use and the ToS is something I've been trying to express for several days on my blog (http://kitmeredith.blogspot.com), but you nailed it with a clarity that's been eluding me. Thank you!

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 6:48PM kmeisthax said

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So, essentially LL uses the ToS as a contract of adhesion to enforce their trademark rights. This won't last 10 seconds in court.

Posted: Mar 31st 2008 8:08PM (Unverified) said

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if someone is using a custom client that don't display the changes in the TOS, would that mean the person can do whatever they want and be protected by the law since they never clicked on "I Agree" ?

Posted: Apr 1st 2008 5:49AM (Unverified) said

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@9 I bet, you already clicked on "I Agree".

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 3:45AM (Unverified) said

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Everyone knows that SL means "Simulated Lands" so I really don't see where there's going to be any problem here.

For instance, SLExchange is for buying/selling stuff for Simulated Lands...though I do notice that their listings do seem to be rather heavy in items intended for use in the Linden Lab® Second Life®™© virtual world, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence and shouldn't be a problem at all.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 4:16AM (Unverified) said

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What you actually _intend_ SL to stand for, Linden Lab asserts that they own any such usage of the two letters in the arena of virtual worlds, and that they may only be used in the context of virtual worlds per their guidelines.

Doesn't matter what you or we actually _intend_ them to mean.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 5:19AM (Unverified) said

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Hmmm...but they can only assert that ownership for people that have agreed to the T.O.S.? So, if your site uses SL in a way they don't like, make sure you don't put your avi's name on there, and you can "claim" that you are someone who's never clicked Agree on their T.O.S. Then I guess they'll try to prove who owns the site and that they did actually click the Agree...but do they keep records that confirm every login & click?

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 5:41AM (Unverified) said

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Actually, no. The use of a mark in the USA for commercial purposes for a given type of goods or services makes it an unregistered trademark and automatically grants it a measure of protection -- though not quite as much as a registered trademark would have, as we understand it.

Whether you are subject to the ToS doesn't affect that the United States Code title 15, Chapter 22 effectively grants Linden Lab the sole right to use the SL mark in relation to virtual world goods and services.

You can use SL to refer to RL shoes, or handbags, or cars, plant products or stuffed toys. But not to virtual worlds or things related to virtual worlds without first getting a court to rule on how broadly the trademark SL should apply or getting Linden Lab's permission.

As a matter of interest, unregistered trademarks have no legal standing or protection in the Czech Republic, France, Italy or Portugal (and perhaps in other locations).

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 6:28AM (Unverified) said

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Are the trademarks going to hold up? People have apparently been using them for years with Linden's blessing and little restriction and no demand to put ™. And there's a claim that SL wasn't even a term created by Linden. Do you know how many of their guidelines are enforceable under trademark law, and how many are enforceable only under TOS agreement? Does a trademark on SL mean sites like SLExchange are in trouble under trademark law, or just TOS rules?

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 6:38AM (Unverified) said

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We believe both TOS rules and trademark law to varying degrees.

Legally, though, there's estoppel. LL is reversing previous presentations with respect to some of its marks, and in so doing, causing costs that would otherwise not have occurred. That could well constitute estoppel.

But someone will have to lawyer up and convince a judge before anyone's protected under estoppel.

Are they going to hold up? Well - who is going to lawyer up and find out? That is the only real test here.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 9:34PM (Unverified) said

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Tradmark registration is a formalty. The thing which really mattesrs is "first use in commerce).

I am very curious what the first use of the SL trademark was. In order to claim first use, SL must appear in commerce as a distinctive mark for your prouducts (I believe that's it). Weren't residents the first ones to use the term SL? What product has Linden Lab ever had called "SL?" Do you remember anybody saying oin any official capacity "Yes, make sure you try Linedn Lab's new SL. It's great."

Isn't Linden Lab co-opting a pre-existing resident-invented abbriveviation and now trying to make it their own under an adhesion contract?

Posted: Apr 2nd 2008 9:56PM (Unverified) said

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You'll enjoy this. Here are some Linden Labs registrations, with filing dates:

Reg#2832935 (7-Oct-2002) "Second Life"
Reg#Pending (5-Jun-2007) "SL"
Reg#Pending (7-Jun-2007) "Second"
Reg#Pending (22-Jun-2007) "Grid"

Many others (such as class update registrations), but those are the ones of significance to the discussion here.

Looks like June of last year was an interesting month at the law firm!

While it is interesting to note that not only are they claiming protection for "SL", but also the word "Second" and word "Grid" as applied to virtual words.

All of the pending terms are in filing class 1B, which means that Linden Labs has pre-filed them before any use in commerce. So, by their own filing, they admit that the terms "SL", "Grid" and "Second" have not actually be used, by them, in commerce, before their filing dates

Please note that all of the pending terms have yet to be published for opposition by USPTO, meaning that all other stakeholders can submit formal opposition when the time comes. If you believe you are using the term SL, Grid, or Second in commerce, and have been prior to their filing date, submitting a formal opposition is a good idea.

I am not an IP lawyer though. I would love to hear from somebody who is.

Posted: Apr 4th 2008 7:06AM (Unverified) said

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The first filing for "Second Life" is legitimate.

The other 3 are sheer greed and arrogance.

Second???? Trademark SECOND?!!?! Ugh.

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